4 ms·

Everything, oh my god. (imo, it changes the whole way you think about the world).

by ajkjk 5y ago

lanstin 5y ago
I think that is just called understanding the world.
- Jensson 5y ago
  We primarily understand the world in terms of numbers and equations. Human intuition for people only sees individuals, it doesn't see the scale of a population or a country. For example the war in Ukraine, people talk a lot about Putin and Zelenskyy and the emotional parts, but the best way to see what really happens is to look at a lot of logistics spreadsheets and how the numbers evolves. Then you understand better what Russia can do, how reasonable their threats are, get a feeling for timeframes etc. On the other side of the spectrum, many people don't even understand percent. So if an article says "1% of corona patients died", they don't understand what that actually means. They understand some people died, but not really what the probabilities are or if they should be worried. They don't really understand much at all about the world as even the simplest of analytical articles are beyond their understanding. They can pick up the emotions in the article and understand that 1% dying is bad, but if you told them that 1% dying isn't a big deal they would trust you as well, as the number doesn't tell them anything its just how you say it.
  - ColinWright 5y ago
    > ... many people don't even understand percent. A worryingly (to me) large number of people can't tell you what 3% of 200 is. Should we care? Should people have a clue about this? Rates of interest are quoted in percentages. Deaths from diseases are quoted in percentages. Growth rates of economies are quoted in percentages. If you have no idea about them, how can you make properly informed decisions? And yet people survive, so maybe it really doesn't matter.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      > And yet people survive, so maybe it really doesn't matter. They survive thanks to people who knows math. We can't run modern society without a lot of people who knows math, we would regress centuries, every natural science requires people who are good at math. There is a reason why the people who are decent at math are valued in every modern society, even soviet understood that part.
    - vsareto 5y ago
      Most people would just grab a calculator on their phone to do it. We invented calculating machines because doing arithmetic ourselves is annoying and error-prone. It's the smart move because we know the calculator is better than our heads for arithmetic. I think we should care if kids can't do it because they learned it recently, but who cares if an adult does it in their head vs. uses a calculator correctly?
      - ColinWright 5y ago
        The submitted article says it: > "being able to do quick approximations in mid-conversation is a superpower." So here's something to think about: * People who can do quick, rough estimations in their heads say that they find it useful, and that the experience is that they have a sort of superpower. * People who can't do it say that there's nothing special about it, and using a calculator is just as good. Perhaps people in the second group don't have the information needed to make an accurate assessment.
        vsareto 5y ago
        I don't know, if your superpower only saves a minute or so during a conversation compared to pulling out a calculator and getting an estimate that way, I wouldn't really call that a superpower. The math doesn't add up for me, and I'm hesitant to believe anyone who says it feels like a superpower because that sounds like an exaggeration. What does that comparatively make people who use calculators to do estimates? Simple primates using an iPhone? Plus the article's reasoning is really bogus to me too: "When I’m on Zoom with a client, I can’t say “Excuse me a second. Something you said gave me an idea, and I’d like to pull out my calculator app.”" This feels like a forced problem to justify his conclusions. It goes away if the other party is willing to wait for you.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  Even in that context, having a basic mental math model improves the quality of your results when you're trying to understand the world. For instance, a job offer. One job offers you $28/hr, the other offers you $55,000 a year with 2 weeks paid vacation time Simple math shows that $28/hr, with 2 weeks unpaid vacation time, is $56,000/year. ($28*2000), and can be ~$2.3k more if you don't take vacation. Understanding of the world and yourself may make you realize that earning $1k-~$3.3k less a year would be worth it to have a set income that doesn't change even when you take vacations, but it's nice to be able to quickly compare the stark math so that you don't immediately think "big number better". That's not the best allegory to explain the utility of math, but the basic concept has rung true in many situations anecdotally in my life.
  - lanstin 5y ago
    I totally agree. I find people that can’t ball park various numerical things are perpetually astonished by things that are perfectly obvious if you see the numbers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Everything, oh my god. (imo, it changes the whole way you think about the world).

by ajkjk 5y ago

Everything, oh my god. (imo, it changes the whole way you think about the world).

lanstin 5y ago

I think that is just called understanding the world.

Jensson 5y ago
We primarily understand the world in terms of numbers and equations. Human intuition for people only sees individuals, it doesn't see the scale of a population or a country. For example the war in Ukraine, people talk a lot about Putin and Zelenskyy and the emotional parts, but the best way to see what really happens is to look at a lot of logistics spreadsheets and how the numbers evolves. Then you understand better what Russia can do, how reasonable their threats are, get a feeling for timeframes etc. On the other side of the spectrum, many people don't even understand percent. So if an article says "1% of corona patients died", they don't understand what that actually means. They understand some people died, but not really what the probabilities are or if they should be worried. They don't really understand much at all about the world as even the simplest of analytical articles are beyond their understanding. They can pick up the emotions in the article and understand that 1% dying is bad, but if you told them that 1% dying isn't a big deal they would trust you as well, as the number doesn't tell them anything its just how you say it.
- ColinWright 5y ago
  > ... many people don't even understand percent. A worryingly (to me) large number of people can't tell you what 3% of 200 is. Should we care? Should people have a clue about this? Rates of interest are quoted in percentages. Deaths from diseases are quoted in percentages. Growth rates of economies are quoted in percentages. If you have no idea about them, how can you make properly informed decisions? And yet people survive, so maybe it really doesn't matter.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > And yet people survive, so maybe it really doesn't matter. They survive thanks to people who knows math. We can't run modern society without a lot of people who knows math, we would regress centuries, every natural science requires people who are good at math. There is a reason why the people who are decent at math are valued in every modern society, even soviet understood that part.
  - vsareto 5y ago
    Most people would just grab a calculator on their phone to do it. We invented calculating machines because doing arithmetic ourselves is annoying and error-prone. It's the smart move because we know the calculator is better than our heads for arithmetic. I think we should care if kids can't do it because they learned it recently, but who cares if an adult does it in their head vs. uses a calculator correctly?
    - ColinWright 5y ago
      The submitted article says it: > "being able to do quick approximations in mid-conversation is a superpower." So here's something to think about: * People who can do quick, rough estimations in their heads say that they find it useful, and that the experience is that they have a sort of superpower. * People who can't do it say that there's nothing special about it, and using a calculator is just as good. Perhaps people in the second group don't have the information needed to make an accurate assessment.
      - vsareto 5y ago
        I don't know, if your superpower only saves a minute or so during a conversation compared to pulling out a calculator and getting an estimate that way, I wouldn't really call that a superpower. The math doesn't add up for me, and I'm hesitant to believe anyone who says it feels like a superpower because that sounds like an exaggeration. What does that comparatively make people who use calculators to do estimates? Simple primates using an iPhone? Plus the article's reasoning is really bogus to me too: "When I’m on Zoom with a client, I can’t say “Excuse me a second. Something you said gave me an idea, and I’d like to pull out my calculator app.”" This feels like a forced problem to justify his conclusions. It goes away if the other party is willing to wait for you.
BizarroLand 5y ago
Even in that context, having a basic mental math model improves the quality of your results when you're trying to understand the world. For instance, a job offer. One job offers you $28/hr, the other offers you $55,000 a year with 2 weeks paid vacation time Simple math shows that $28/hr, with 2 weeks unpaid vacation time, is $56,000/year. ($28*2000), and can be ~$2.3k more if you don't take vacation. Understanding of the world and yourself may make you realize that earning $1k-~$3.3k less a year would be worth it to have a set income that doesn't change even when you take vacations, but it's nice to be able to quickly compare the stark math so that you don't immediately think "big number better". That's not the best allegory to explain the utility of math, but the basic concept has rung true in many situations anecdotally in my life.
- lanstin 5y ago
  I totally agree. I find people that can’t ball park various numerical things are perpetually astonished by things that are perfectly obvious if you see the numbers.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]