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I agree with you, and although this question is probably a bit unusual: do we know for sure that those paperwork and structural changes did not already begin ye

by jka 5y ago

I agree with you, and although this question is probably a bit unusual: do we know for sure that those paperwork and structural changes did not already begin years ago? (there have been rumblings and disquiet about the potential for conflict in this area for a long period of time, and we could hope that wise, co-operative politicians would prepare defensive plans in advance)

scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago
These things aren’t some secret paperwork that needs to be filed, they’re publicly visible legal reforms that make the economies and legal systems compatible with all the other member states’. Not to mention a ton of regulatory trade stuff. I would compare it to rewiring an entire operating system AND bios AND… I dunno assembly language or something. And this isn’t just about compatibility, it’s also about trust - EU membership goes along with many commitments and standards. And now imagine 10-20 years down the a post-Putin Russia influencing Ukraine once again, only now it is a EU member state, Zelenskyy has retired and some other euro-sceptic madman is manipulating the EU only from the inside. This also is a concern politically - how sure can we be that Ukraine, which is known for swinging East-West, doesn’t swing back? Just look at the conflicts that Poland and Hungary have caused. These are countries which are basically breaking democratic standards from the inside and vetoing change. Not an easy situation.
- jka 5y ago
  Thank you - I'm not sure I have further thoughts to add at the moment, but wanted to acknowledge having read your message.
- AndrewDucker 5y ago
  "These things aren’t some secret paperwork that needs to be filed, they’re publicly visible legal reforms that make the economies and legal systems compatible with all the other member states." Probably a good thing that it started in 1994 with the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement between them, moved on to the Joint EU–Ukraine Action Plan in 2005, and then to the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement in 2013, which didn't get signed because of Russian interference and led directly to a revolution. Oh, and then after the revolution, we got the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement. So they might not be quite ready, it's not like this has come out of nowhere, and lots of reforms haven't already happened.

by jka 5y ago

scyzoryk_xyz 5y ago

These things aren’t some secret paperwork that needs to be filed, they’re publicly visible legal reforms that make the economies and legal systems compatible with all the other member states’. Not to mention a ton of regulatory trade stuff. I would compare it to rewiring an entire operating system AND bios AND… I dunno assembly language or something. And this isn’t just about compatibility, it’s also about trust - EU membership goes along with many commitments and standards. And now imagine 10-20 years down the a post-Putin Russia influencing Ukraine once again, only now it is a EU member state, Zelenskyy has retired and some other euro-sceptic madman is manipulating the EU only from the inside. This also is a concern politically - how sure can we be that Ukraine, which is known for swinging East-West, doesn’t swing back? Just look at the conflicts that Poland and Hungary have caused. These are countries which are basically breaking democratic standards from the inside and vetoing change. Not an easy situation.

jka 5y ago
Thank you - I'm not sure I have further thoughts to add at the moment, but wanted to acknowledge having read your message.
AndrewDucker 5y ago
"These things aren’t some secret paperwork that needs to be filed, they’re publicly visible legal reforms that make the economies and legal systems compatible with all the other member states." Probably a good thing that it started in 1994 with the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement between them, moved on to the Joint EU–Ukraine Action Plan in 2005, and then to the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement in 2013, which didn't get signed because of Russian interference and led directly to a revolution. Oh, and then after the revolution, we got the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement. So they might not be quite ready, it's not like this has come out of nowhere, and lots of reforms haven't already happened.