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Launch HN: Drifting in Space (YC W22) – A server process for every user
Hi HN, we’re Paul and Taylor, and we’re launching Drifting in Space (https://driftingin.space https://driftingin.space). We build server software for performance-intensive browser-based applications. We make it easy to give every user of your app a dedicated server-side process, which starts when they open your application and stops when they close the tab.
Many high-end web apps give every user a dedicated connection to a server-side process. That is how they get the low latency that you need for ambitious products like full-fledged video editing tools and IDEs. This is hard for smaller teams to recreate, because it takes a significant ongoing engineering investment. That’s where we come in—we make this architecture available to everyone, so you can focus on your app instead of its infrastructure. You can think of it like Heroku, except that each of your users gets their own server instance.
I realized that something like this was needed while working on data-intensive tools at a hedge fund. I noticed that almost all new application software, whether it was built in-house or third-party SaaS, was delivered as a browser application rather than native. Although browsers are more powerful than ever, I knew from experience that industrial-scale data-heavy apps posed problems, because neither the browser or a traditional stateless server architecture could provide the compute resources needed for low-latency interaction with large datasets. I began talking about this with my friend Taylor, who had encountered similar limitations while working on data analysis and visualization tools at Datadog and Uber. We decided to team up and build a company around solving it.
We have two products, an open source package and a managed platform. Spawner, the open source part, provides an API for web apps to spawn a session-lived process. It manages the process’s lifecycle, exposing it over HTTPS, tracking inbound connections, and shutting it down when it becomes idle (i.e. when the user closes their tab). It’s open source (MIT) and available at https://github.com/drifting-in-space/spawner https://github.com/drifting-in-space/spawner.
Jamsocket is our managed platform, which uses Spawner internally. It provides the same API, but frees you from having to deal with any cluster or network configuration to ship code. From an app developer’s point of view, using it is similar to using platforms like Netlify or Render. You stay in the web stack and never have to touch Kubernetes.
Here's an example. Imagine you make an application for investigating fraud in a large transaction database. Users want to interactively filter, aggregate, and visualize gigabytes of transactions as a graph. Instead of sending all of the data down to the browser and doing the work there, you would put your code in a container and upload it to our platform. Then, whenever a fraud analyst opens your application, you hit an API we provide to spin up a dedicated backend for that analyst. Your browser code then opens a WebSocket connection directly to that backend, which it uses to stream data as the analyst applies filters or zooms/pans the visualization.
We're different from most managed platforms because we give each user a dedicated process. That said, there are a few other services that do run long-lived processes for each user. Architecturally, we're most similar to Agones. Agones is targeted at games where the client can speak UDP to an arbitrary IP; we target applications that want to connect directly from browsers to a hostname over HTTPS. In the Erlang world, the OTP stack provides similar functionality, but you have to embrace Erlang/Elixir to get the benefits of it; we are entirely language-agnostic. Cloudflare Durable Objects support a form of long-lived processes, but are focused on use cases around program state synchronization rather than arbitrary high-compute/memory use cases.
We have a usage-based billing model, similar to Heroku. We charge you for the compute you use and take a cut. Usage billing scales to zero, so it’s approachable for weekend experiments. We have not solidified a price plan yet, but we’re aiming to provide an instance capable of running VS Code (as an example) for about 10 cents an hour, fractionally metered. High-memory and high-CPU backends will cost more, and heavy users will get volume discounts. Our target customers are desktop-like SaaS apps and internal data tools.
As mentioned, our core API is open source and available at https://github.com/drifting-in-space/spawner https://github.com/drifting-in-space/spawner. The managed platform is in beta and we’re currently onboarding users from a waitlist, to make sure that we have the server capacity to scale. If you’re interested, you’re welcome to sign up for it here: https://driftingin.space https://driftingin.space.
Have you built a similar infrastructure for your application? We’re interested in hearing the approaches people have already taken to this problem and what the pain points are.
- rfonseca 5y agoThis is pretty cool. Have you considered not killing the instance after the user disconnects, but pausing the container instead? This opens up the whole tradeoff space between how long you keep the state vs cost to the infrastructure/price to the user.
- paulgb 5y agoIn the case of containers it gets tricky because of how it interacts with the scheduler (e.g. if a node is idle but has a bunch of paused containers that could be unpaused at any time, the scheduler has to decide how to proceed), but I love the concept. It's something I've thought a bit about in a world where the server can be compiled to WebAssembly, because it's imaginable to suspend it and serialize the memory state so that it can be sent off to storage somewhere and pulled out when the next request comes in. This was actually part of the motivation behind a library I wrote called Stateroom (https://github.com/drifting-in-space/stateroom https://github.com/drifting-in-space/stateroom), which creates a stateful WebSocket server as a WebAssembly module, but I haven't yet implemented the ability to freeze the state of the module between requests.
- KloudTrader 5y agoWhat are you using for the server resource provisioning for your hosted service? Firecracker on KVM? Current services like AWS Fargate/Lightsail containers/Google Cloud run are not competitive pricing wise for dynamic container spawning at scale unless you provision ahead of time. For this sort of services, your managed solution needs to be competitive with e.g. raw compute providers like DigitalOcean and Hetzner.
- paulgb 5y agoWe're running on GKE right now, which allows us to iterate quickly, and we'll focus on the unit economics as we scale. As part of our research we've talked to dozens of teams who have already implemented this architecture, and most of them ended up using EKS or GKE (a few did use Firecracker or raw VMs), so they're already subject to those prices and it isn't a problem for them. We know that the unit economics may never make sense for hosting free tools and services, but we're focused on high-value SaaS and internal tools. For our target users, our value proposition is that we replace engineering/devops effort, not just the raw compute we provide.