5 ms·

How much conflicting information can people handle? Read much of this book, for example: https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically/dp/12500661

How much conflicting information can people handle? Read much of this book, for example: https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically/dp/1250066115 https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically/d...

hombre_fatal 5y ago
It makes sense to me that eating meat can improve the health of people just eating grains and tubers in the article. And from there, you can further improve your health by being even more precise about what you eat by following, for example, the whole food plant-based diet in that book. That eating meat is more nutritious than eating only carb crops isn't very applicable to anyone on HN, I don't think. We're kinda beyond that and should be looking for the next rung up on the ladder, like eating enough fiber—something few Americans do. We're too easily swept up in faction wars about food to have meaningful discussion and it muddies the water when you try to find good information. We'll argue about the health implications of meat and vegetables and whatever while having a coke and bag of chips next to the keyboard while pretending we're all min/maxing our health. Meanwhile, we ignore the fact that most people don't try to get anywhere near any of the so-called optimal diets we're so willing to argue about, and the distance from the average person's diet to those diets are probably a lot farther than the health impact between those diets.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Then how about you start: what's your opinion on the ideal diet?
cowanon577576 5y ago
"How not to die" is written by Dr. Greger, a devout and somewhat militant vegan. I used to listen to his You-tube channel which, at first appearance, is research-based nutrition information. However, if you scratch below the surface and read the original papers you will often find that he has slanted the interpretation to be pro vegetable based, while ignoring the sections of the same papers that could be interpreted as pro-dairy or pro-meat. His work is a case study in confirmation bias.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  This is why, for the laymen, this shit is so hard. There are a lot of doctors, scientists, and academics who have gone all in on veganism, keto-based diets, paleo diets, and even carnviore. They have blogs, forums, youtube channels, etc.. They're all very smart people be it Dr Greger as a vegan or say (Dr.) Shawn Baker as a carnivore. Or Eric Berg (pro-veggie heavy keto and fasting) but they all have these massive blind spots. They all cherry pick studies and data that verify their diet of choice they all love poor studies that contradict their findings because they go "see this is the type of stuff the media latches on to and makes you stray from the faith!" It gives them easy targets to take down. Some get so wrapped up in their grants and book deals, when new information comes around they double down to save their reputation and livelihood (See David Sinclair regarding resveratrol ) And they all avoid information that contradict their recommendations or will flat out lie. Vegans repeating falsehoods about meat by peddling studies of "meat eaters" having cancer or high blood pressure or this or that, without looking at other confounding factors (dietary or otherwise) is a common tactic. Carnivores go down the lecithin rabbit hole to the point it seems like a conspiracy theory. They over-exaggerate anti-nutrients in foods, every time they can stretch a truth (Goitrogens in broccoli for instance) they pounce. Keto folks are right when they say saturated fat was UN-necessarily demonized, but they've started to have a relationship with fat like your average college stoner who wants marijuana legalization who won't shut up about it being a miracle substance with zero consequences. LDL being high can still be a problematic sign. Yes yes, there's different types of LDL and basic lipid panels don't go into the types, and just label it all "bad", but LDL being too high still risks clogged arteries. And if the so called "leaders" and voices in these communities aren't bad enough, the communities themselves are all cults. Every last one of them. My rules for diets is so: 1. Don't eat too often (have more days with 1-2 meals a day than not, the occasional 3 meal a day and occasion days where you fast). Fasting is good for managing weight and blood sugar, but the killer feature of it is autophagy - a process that kicks off our body's ability to prevent cancer. 2. Eat mostly a wide variety of plants for their vitamin and phyto-nutrient profile (eat the colors of the rainbow) 3. Avoid added sodium/salt, added sugars and seed-oils (or any oil high in omega6s). This can be accomplished largely by avoiding processed/packaged/pre-made foods and not going out to eat so much. Don't eat a lot of "treats". 4. Get fats from nuts, salmon, olive oil. When cooking use Olive oil, butter, ghee, beef tallow, or coconut oil. Eat salmon 1-2x a week. Limit fatty red meat. Minimize fried foods. 5. Eat a moderate amount of protein to strike a balance between health span and lifespan. 6. Eat fermented foods. (natto, kimchi, sauerkraut, pickles, yogurt). Natto, doubly so as it's a high source of K2 (which helps calcium go where it's supposed to and the western diet is lacking in it) and nattokinase, which lowers blood pressure. 7. Eat things that lower blood pressure. (natto, garlic, beets (in moderation), flaxseed). 8. Recognize estrogenic foods have a large correlation between lifespan at the cost of testosterone and make your choice. 9. I know the idea of "super foods" gets eye rolls but some things are staples and should be: Green tea, moringa, coffee (through a paper filter), berries, broccoli sprouts (for the sulforaphane) salmon/sardines, kale/watercress/arugula, olive oil. Eat things high in spermidine. (wheat germ, mushrooms, peas). 10. The occasional glass of low-alcohol, low-sulfate red wine (i might have 1-2 on Fri and 1 on Saturday) isn't that bad, but maybe it should be done without. But then again.. i have to enjoy life somehow and somewhere. 11. Don't overdo it with anything too high in oxylates (chia, beets, black tea) and if you do, pair it with a high calcium food and in fact, always ensure you get adequate calcium to avoid kidney stones. 12. Minimize grains (breads, cereals, pasta). But if it's your kid's birthday, have a fucking cupcake or eat his favorite spaghetti dinner. 13. Don't worry about "ketosis". Just eat low carb and low-sugar and occasionally fast. You'll go in and out of ketosis naturally and metabolic flexibility is more important than pissing on a strip and seeing if you're producing ketones 100% of the time. 14. Eat things that lower uric acid, but not too much. Celery, cherries, low-fat/skim dairy. 15. Add lemon or lime to your water. and after all of this it's exercise, sauna (associated with 40% reduction in all-cause mortality (aside from accidents, suicides, murder, etc..)), de-stress (have fun, meditate) and enjoy life to the best of your ability. foster positive relationships, get a good night's sleep. Don't do drugs, don't smoke, try to avoid toxins to the best of your ability (heavy metals, Phthalates, BPA/BPS/Badge, PFAS', etc.) I guess if i was giving advice to others it'd be do the above, but if you're in it for weight loss, great - but don't lose too much too fast. This is huge in the keto/fasting community who want the pounds to fly off and end up with heart issues or gout or some such shit after losing 100lbs in a year. Don't do that. And while there's a role for supplements (i take tested omega3 and vitd supplements), i think it's vital to not rely on them, to spend days doing without them, and to keep them to a minimum. You WILL eventually take one that has heavy metals. it's not regulated, not every batch of every supplement it tested. Most supplements are often going off of new science that's missing the whole picture and people again and again find they're taking stuff where future studies debunks or worse, finds it's harmful. We, often find that the poison is in the dose (4G+ of EPA Omega 3s cause heart issues). There. That's my exhaustive list after spending 3 years of reading studies, watching youtube videos, joining communities, going keto for 6 months, going vegetarian for 3 months and vegan for 3 more, going carnivore for 3 weeks and experimenting with fasting.
ComradePhil 5y ago
I will list a counter book to this just people can read everything and decide for themselves: - Nutrition and Physical Degeneration https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Price/dp/0916764206 https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Westo...

hombre_fatal 5y ago

It makes sense to me that eating meat can improve the health of people just eating grains and tubers in the article. And from there, you can further improve your health by being even more precise about what you eat by following, for example, the whole food plant-based diet in that book. That eating meat is more nutritious than eating only carb crops isn't very applicable to anyone on HN, I don't think. We're kinda beyond that and should be looking for the next rung up on the ladder, like eating enough fiber—something few Americans do. We're too easily swept up in faction wars about food to have meaningful discussion and it muddies the water when you try to find good information. We'll argue about the health implications of meat and vegetables and whatever while having a coke and bag of chips next to the keyboard while pretending we're all min/maxing our health. Meanwhile, we ignore the fact that most people don't try to get anywhere near any of the so-called optimal diets we're so willing to argue about, and the distance from the average person's diet to those diets are probably a lot farther than the health impact between those diets.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
Then how about you start: what's your opinion on the ideal diet?

cowanon577576 5y ago

"How not to die" is written by Dr. Greger, a devout and somewhat militant vegan. I used to listen to his You-tube channel which, at first appearance, is research-based nutrition information. However, if you scratch below the surface and read the original papers you will often find that he has slanted the interpretation to be pro vegetable based, while ignoring the sections of the same papers that could be interpreted as pro-dairy or pro-meat. His work is a case study in confirmation bias.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
This is why, for the laymen, this shit is so hard. There are a lot of doctors, scientists, and academics who have gone all in on veganism, keto-based diets, paleo diets, and even carnviore. They have blogs, forums, youtube channels, etc.. They're all very smart people be it Dr Greger as a vegan or say (Dr.) Shawn Baker as a carnivore. Or Eric Berg (pro-veggie heavy keto and fasting) but they all have these massive blind spots. They all cherry pick studies and data that verify their diet of choice they all love poor studies that contradict their findings because they go "see this is the type of stuff the media latches on to and makes you stray from the faith!" It gives them easy targets to take down. Some get so wrapped up in their grants and book deals, when new information comes around they double down to save their reputation and livelihood (See David Sinclair regarding resveratrol ) And they all avoid information that contradict their recommendations or will flat out lie. Vegans repeating falsehoods about meat by peddling studies of "meat eaters" having cancer or high blood pressure or this or that, without looking at other confounding factors (dietary or otherwise) is a common tactic. Carnivores go down the lecithin rabbit hole to the point it seems like a conspiracy theory. They over-exaggerate anti-nutrients in foods, every time they can stretch a truth (Goitrogens in broccoli for instance) they pounce. Keto folks are right when they say saturated fat was UN-necessarily demonized, but they've started to have a relationship with fat like your average college stoner who wants marijuana legalization who won't shut up about it being a miracle substance with zero consequences. LDL being high can still be a problematic sign. Yes yes, there's different types of LDL and basic lipid panels don't go into the types, and just label it all "bad", but LDL being too high still risks clogged arteries. And if the so called "leaders" and voices in these communities aren't bad enough, the communities themselves are all cults. Every last one of them. My rules for diets is so: 1. Don't eat too often (have more days with 1-2 meals a day than not, the occasional 3 meal a day and occasion days where you fast). Fasting is good for managing weight and blood sugar, but the killer feature of it is autophagy - a process that kicks off our body's ability to prevent cancer. 2. Eat mostly a wide variety of plants for their vitamin and phyto-nutrient profile (eat the colors of the rainbow) 3. Avoid added sodium/salt, added sugars and seed-oils (or any oil high in omega6s). This can be accomplished largely by avoiding processed/packaged/pre-made foods and not going out to eat so much. Don't eat a lot of "treats". 4. Get fats from nuts, salmon, olive oil. When cooking use Olive oil, butter, ghee, beef tallow, or coconut oil. Eat salmon 1-2x a week. Limit fatty red meat. Minimize fried foods. 5. Eat a moderate amount of protein to strike a balance between health span and lifespan. 6. Eat fermented foods. (natto, kimchi, sauerkraut, pickles, yogurt). Natto, doubly so as it's a high source of K2 (which helps calcium go where it's supposed to and the western diet is lacking in it) and nattokinase, which lowers blood pressure. 7. Eat things that lower blood pressure. (natto, garlic, beets (in moderation), flaxseed). 8. Recognize estrogenic foods have a large correlation between lifespan at the cost of testosterone and make your choice. 9. I know the idea of "super foods" gets eye rolls but some things are staples and should be: Green tea, moringa, coffee (through a paper filter), berries, broccoli sprouts (for the sulforaphane) salmon/sardines, kale/watercress/arugula, olive oil. Eat things high in spermidine. (wheat germ, mushrooms, peas). 10. The occasional glass of low-alcohol, low-sulfate red wine (i might have 1-2 on Fri and 1 on Saturday) isn't that bad, but maybe it should be done without. But then again.. i have to enjoy life somehow and somewhere. 11. Don't overdo it with anything too high in oxylates (chia, beets, black tea) and if you do, pair it with a high calcium food and in fact, always ensure you get adequate calcium to avoid kidney stones. 12. Minimize grains (breads, cereals, pasta). But if it's your kid's birthday, have a fucking cupcake or eat his favorite spaghetti dinner. 13. Don't worry about "ketosis". Just eat low carb and low-sugar and occasionally fast. You'll go in and out of ketosis naturally and metabolic flexibility is more important than pissing on a strip and seeing if you're producing ketones 100% of the time. 14. Eat things that lower uric acid, but not too much. Celery, cherries, low-fat/skim dairy. 15. Add lemon or lime to your water. and after all of this it's exercise, sauna (associated with 40% reduction in all-cause mortality (aside from accidents, suicides, murder, etc..)), de-stress (have fun, meditate) and enjoy life to the best of your ability. foster positive relationships, get a good night's sleep. Don't do drugs, don't smoke, try to avoid toxins to the best of your ability (heavy metals, Phthalates, BPA/BPS/Badge, PFAS', etc.) I guess if i was giving advice to others it'd be do the above, but if you're in it for weight loss, great - but don't lose too much too fast. This is huge in the keto/fasting community who want the pounds to fly off and end up with heart issues or gout or some such shit after losing 100lbs in a year. Don't do that. And while there's a role for supplements (i take tested omega3 and vitd supplements), i think it's vital to not rely on them, to spend days doing without them, and to keep them to a minimum. You WILL eventually take one that has heavy metals. it's not regulated, not every batch of every supplement it tested. Most supplements are often going off of new science that's missing the whole picture and people again and again find they're taking stuff where future studies debunks or worse, finds it's harmful. We, often find that the poison is in the dose (4G+ of EPA Omega 3s cause heart issues). There. That's my exhaustive list after spending 3 years of reading studies, watching youtube videos, joining communities, going keto for 6 months, going vegetarian for 3 months and vegan for 3 more, going carnivore for 3 weeks and experimenting with fasting.

ComradePhil 5y ago

I will list a counter book to this just people can read everything and decide for themselves: - Nutrition and Physical Degeneration https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Price/dp/0916764206 https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Westo...