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According to this LA Times [0] story, the records were apparently found on judyrecords.com, a project recently discussed in a Show HN [1] > State Bar officials

by danso 5y ago

According to this LA Times [0] story, the records were apparently found on judyrecords.com, a project recently discussed in a Show HN [1] > State Bar officials learned about the posted records on Feb. 24. As of Saturday night, all the confidential information that had been published on the website judyrecords.com — which included case numbers, file dates, information about the types of cases and their statuses, respondent and complaining witnesses names — had been removed, officials said. > ...Full case records were not published. Officials said they don’t know whether the published information was the result of a hacking incident. Judyrecords.com is a website that aggregates nationwide court case records. edit: The "Info" link [2] on judyrecords.com has updates related to this event. It asserts that the confidential data was available on the CA Bar's own website: > These records were all (confidential & non-confidential) previously publicly available at https://discipline.calbar.ca.gov https://discipline.calbar.ca.gov (now offline). [0] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-27/california-bar-investigates-possible-data-breach-after-discipline-records-published-online https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-27/californ... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30399881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30399881 [2] https://www.judyrecords.com/info https://www.judyrecords.com/info

coding123 5y ago
I thought something was off about that site. I doesn't seem fair or legal to just publish that data like that. I think in the era of go in and get things things should be "public". Now in the search engine age and data available at your fingertips we need to entirely change our public records laws... Immediately. edit: In fact a HN User said this with NO REPLY from the author of that Show HN: I have some records that are sealed, but show up in this database. So there are records that were once ‘public’ but are no more, but this database makes them public again. I think that website should be taken offline immediately.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  please recall a basic motivation for the formation of the United States of America, versus the Kingdom of Britain under George III. In the legal system of Britain, all Crown records are SECRET unless cleared. Under the Federal Laws of the USA, all Federal records are PUBLIC unless classified. get the idea?
- 5ESS 5y ago
  Blame the state governments for publishing those records in the first place. Everyone knows that once information is published on the internet there is really no “undo” button. If judyrecords goes down another, perhaps less scrupulous, operator will release another similar site.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Without transparency, including public records, how do we hold the powerful accountable? Court records are public to prevent secret government courts from abusing people (among other reasons). How do we operate a democracy, which depends on citizens controlling their country? And most importantly, who does get access to the records? That exculsive access will give them a lot of power.
  - SllX 5y ago
    Something that stuck out to me about that website is that we really do publish a lot. If you ever had a speeding ticket, that’s a matter of public record now. If you ever had a parking violation, that’s a matter of public record. I mean to be honest, if you just have a car, I can probably find you on that website if I know your name. Also goes for divorces. By and large I agree with your take, but playing around with the search got me thinking that maybe we just make too much a matter of public record and that some things might just be too noisy, even if it isn’t the biggest privacy violation per se. Still mulling it over though, so I can’t say I’m committed to that position yet, feel free to talk me back.
    - oh_sigh 5y ago
      I have owned a car in NY, FL, and CA, have been married, and have received parking violations in all 3 of those states, and my very unique name is not present at all on that website.
      - SllX 5y ago
        Fair. I did search out myself and several others I know. Didn’t find myself, but did find out that there’s a guy with a very similar name to me (different middle name) that likes to live dangerously in the same State but in several different counties racking up speeding violations like there’s no tomorrow. I was able to find almost every single other person I searched though, chose not to dig into it any further than I could confirm it was someone I actually knew, typically by birth date.
      - function_seven 5y ago
- ejb999 5y ago
  >> we need to entirely change our public records laws... Immediately. I am certain that many people in government would agree with you - they would LOVE to be able to hide what they are doing and not be held accountable for decisions they make (or don't make). We need more public disclosures, not less, imo. >>So there are records that were once ‘public’ but are no more, but this database makes them public again. This website didn't make them public, they just gave others a way to access them - once something is public, and in control of others, it is impossible to make them 'un-public' without violating the 1st amendment.
  - djbusby 5y ago
    What's the point of sealed records then? How would that be managed? We should let citizens have some privacy right?
    - ejb999 5y ago
      If they were sealed, they shouldn't be made public until they become unsealed (if ever) - but if they were public at some point, they are for all intents and purposes public forever. Very hard to make something private, after it has been out in the public.
      - thrashh 5y ago
        Plenty of things become super hard to find after no one cares about it anymore. High profile cases aren’t like that but most things are not high profile. Just because you can’t make something 100% perfect doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. Locks aren’t unbreakable. Seatbelts won’t always save you. Your cloud service won’t always stay up. Yet we use and build all these things and no one has an issue with it. And for all intents and purposes, if court records are meant to be hidden to protect someone’s future chance of success, by all means we should do what we can.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      I don't think the discussion is about sealed records. I think the main point here is that the state needs to adequately seal the record. As a side note, I don't think Bar complaints should be private. People running the system should be transparent. The only reason transparency should be limited is with the name of the witness. Otherwise, how can we be sure the system is functioning correctly?
- richardbarosky 5y ago
  It's the first reply.
sva_ 5y ago
Let me guess... judyrecords.com collected these by iterating over some chronological id that didn't properly check if someone has read rights. edit: would love to check, but[0] > The State Bar Court Portal will be unavailable from February 25th to February 28th due to maintenance activities. During this time the Case Search and Court Calendar functionality will not be available. [0] https://apps.statebarcourt.ca.gov/dockets.aspx https://apps.statebarcourt.ca.gov/dockets.aspx via https://www.statebarcourt.ca.gov/Public-Records-Information https://www.statebarcourt.ca.gov/Public-Records-Information

by danso 5y ago

coding123 5y ago

I thought something was off about that site. I doesn't seem fair or legal to just publish that data like that. I think in the era of go in and get things things should be "public". Now in the search engine age and data available at your fingertips we need to entirely change our public records laws... Immediately. edit: In fact a HN User said this with NO REPLY from the author of that Show HN: I have some records that are sealed, but show up in this database. So there are records that were once ‘public’ but are no more, but this database makes them public again. I think that website should be taken offline immediately.

mistrial9 5y ago
please recall a basic motivation for the formation of the United States of America, versus the Kingdom of Britain under George III. In the legal system of Britain, all Crown records are SECRET unless cleared. Under the Federal Laws of the USA, all Federal records are PUBLIC unless classified. get the idea?
5ESS 5y ago
Blame the state governments for publishing those records in the first place. Everyone knows that once information is published on the internet there is really no “undo” button. If judyrecords goes down another, perhaps less scrupulous, operator will release another similar site.
wolverine876 5y ago
Without transparency, including public records, how do we hold the powerful accountable? Court records are public to prevent secret government courts from abusing people (among other reasons). How do we operate a democracy, which depends on citizens controlling their country? And most importantly, who does get access to the records? That exculsive access will give them a lot of power.
- SllX 5y ago
  Something that stuck out to me about that website is that we really do publish a lot. If you ever had a speeding ticket, that’s a matter of public record now. If you ever had a parking violation, that’s a matter of public record. I mean to be honest, if you just have a car, I can probably find you on that website if I know your name. Also goes for divorces. By and large I agree with your take, but playing around with the search got me thinking that maybe we just make too much a matter of public record and that some things might just be too noisy, even if it isn’t the biggest privacy violation per se. Still mulling it over though, so I can’t say I’m committed to that position yet, feel free to talk me back.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    I have owned a car in NY, FL, and CA, have been married, and have received parking violations in all 3 of those states, and my very unique name is not present at all on that website.
    - SllX 5y ago
      Fair. I did search out myself and several others I know. Didn’t find myself, but did find out that there’s a guy with a very similar name to me (different middle name) that likes to live dangerously in the same State but in several different counties racking up speeding violations like there’s no tomorrow. I was able to find almost every single other person I searched though, chose not to dig into it any further than I could confirm it was someone I actually knew, typically by birth date.
    - function_seven 5y ago
ejb999 5y ago
>> we need to entirely change our public records laws... Immediately. I am certain that many people in government would agree with you - they would LOVE to be able to hide what they are doing and not be held accountable for decisions they make (or don't make). We need more public disclosures, not less, imo. >>So there are records that were once ‘public’ but are no more, but this database makes them public again. This website didn't make them public, they just gave others a way to access them - once something is public, and in control of others, it is impossible to make them 'un-public' without violating the 1st amendment.
- djbusby 5y ago
  What's the point of sealed records then? How would that be managed? We should let citizens have some privacy right?
  - ejb999 5y ago
    If they were sealed, they shouldn't be made public until they become unsealed (if ever) - but if they were public at some point, they are for all intents and purposes public forever. Very hard to make something private, after it has been out in the public.
    - thrashh 5y ago
      Plenty of things become super hard to find after no one cares about it anymore. High profile cases aren’t like that but most things are not high profile. Just because you can’t make something 100% perfect doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. Locks aren’t unbreakable. Seatbelts won’t always save you. Your cloud service won’t always stay up. Yet we use and build all these things and no one has an issue with it. And for all intents and purposes, if court records are meant to be hidden to protect someone’s future chance of success, by all means we should do what we can.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I don't think the discussion is about sealed records. I think the main point here is that the state needs to adequately seal the record. As a side note, I don't think Bar complaints should be private. People running the system should be transparent. The only reason transparency should be limited is with the name of the witness. Otherwise, how can we be sure the system is functioning correctly?
richardbarosky 5y ago
It's the first reply.

sva_ 5y ago

Let me guess... judyrecords.com collected these by iterating over some chronological id that didn't properly check if someone has read rights. edit: would love to check, but[0] > The State Bar Court Portal will be unavailable from February 25th to February 28th due to maintenance activities. During this time the Case Search and Court Calendar functionality will not be available. [0] https://apps.statebarcourt.ca.gov/dockets.aspx https://apps.statebarcourt.ca.gov/dockets.aspx via https://www.statebarcourt.ca.gov/Public-Records-Information https://www.statebarcourt.ca.gov/Public-Records-Information