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One could argue that Opera Mini has been doing the very same thing for a while now, and it did not appear to cause any major uproar between the privacy proponen

One could argue that Opera Mini has been doing the very same thing for a while now, and it did not appear to cause any major uproar between the privacy proponents. This might be a typical "Ah, that's Opera, cool stuff, but who cares" attitude, but it might also indicate a profound shift in surfer's attitude towards their privacy. You press them long enough and they will grow to accept that intrusive Web surfing is a damn norm. That's the shift I am personally really afraid of, but by the looks of it and as upsetting as it sounds, it is inevitable.

falcolas 15y ago
I believe Opera is not generating any uproar simply because they are acting as a "dumb pipe" in the truest sense - they're not trying to mess with the stream of data that they're entrusted (even though they're in a best possible position to do so), and so we trust them with the stream of data. I think it would be different if they were intruding on the stream, and I imagine the backlash against Amazon if they do will be major.
- huhtenberg 15y ago
  But the thing is that Opera now sits on a trove of highly valuable information, and I can't imagine them not doing anything about it. As benign and non-evil as they are, they must feel pressure - be it internal, external or both - to capitalize on this "asset". Do you trust them enough to keep resisting this pressure, which is only guaranteed to rise?
  - rhizome 15y ago
    All we know is that they've resisted it so far, right? I know the bar for ethics here is pretty low, but give credit where due.
    - kaffiene 15y ago
      I think that's very important. We have to trust some companies to get by in the world so its very important being able to distinguish between those you trust and those you don't. For me, I killed my facebook account while leaving Google+ running. I know that Google is using its data on me to serve up ads to me, but I feel they're pretty up-front about this, unlike facebook. I think its important to be able to judge which companies are worth trusting and giving credit to those (like Opera) which haven't yet given anyone reason to doubt them.
  - vetler 15y ago
    One of the things they use the data for is State of the Mobile Web (http://www.opera.com/smw/ http://www.opera.com/smw/), which is generated based on log files stored in a HDFS cluster and processed with Hadoop. At least it was like this a few years ago, and as far as I know they haven't changed it. Having all this information available is certainly valuable to Opera and both their current and potential customers. Any pressure to be more evil is countered by a few things: the scandinavian culture and the developers. In general, it is in scandinavians' nature to be nice to other people, so doing evil things don't come naturally in most cases. Really. Afer all, we're socialists. Of course there are plenty of non-scandinavians at Opera, but when I was there a few years ago the corporate culture was still scandinavian. Also, the developers have traditionally had a lot to say at Opera, probably partly because of the scandinavian culture, and partly due to corporate culture instilled by the founders. They are also very vocal about their opinions, and are against doing evil things. Actually, the Opera Mini team has been especially concerned about this. However, Opera Mini servers are located in countries around the world, and will be subject to local laws, so use and abuse of this may not always be in Opera's hands.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  Confused: I read here (HN) that Opera is substituting ads on web pages, subverting every websites revenue scheme with their own. Not true?
nupark2 15y ago
Opera Mini is likely not causing any uproar because they're a 2nd or 3rd tier browser. They're not a 1st tier browser, and they're certainly not the default browser on a 1st tier platform. Amazon, however, is making a play to be a 1st tier Apple-style comprehensive platform for mobile devices, media, and applications, and they're shipping "Silk" as the default browser.
- eli 15y ago
  Opera Mini is indeed the default browser on several phones. It's one of the few discernable ways that Opera makes any money. Granted, nothing as popular as the Fire is likely to be.

falcolas 15y ago

I believe Opera is not generating any uproar simply because they are acting as a "dumb pipe" in the truest sense - they're not trying to mess with the stream of data that they're entrusted (even though they're in a best possible position to do so), and so we trust them with the stream of data. I think it would be different if they were intruding on the stream, and I imagine the backlash against Amazon if they do will be major.

huhtenberg 15y ago
But the thing is that Opera now sits on a trove of highly valuable information, and I can't imagine them not doing anything about it. As benign and non-evil as they are, they must feel pressure - be it internal, external or both - to capitalize on this "asset". Do you trust them enough to keep resisting this pressure, which is only guaranteed to rise?
- rhizome 15y ago
  All we know is that they've resisted it so far, right? I know the bar for ethics here is pretty low, but give credit where due.
  - kaffiene 15y ago
    I think that's very important. We have to trust some companies to get by in the world so its very important being able to distinguish between those you trust and those you don't. For me, I killed my facebook account while leaving Google+ running. I know that Google is using its data on me to serve up ads to me, but I feel they're pretty up-front about this, unlike facebook. I think its important to be able to judge which companies are worth trusting and giving credit to those (like Opera) which haven't yet given anyone reason to doubt them.
- vetler 15y ago
  One of the things they use the data for is State of the Mobile Web (http://www.opera.com/smw/ http://www.opera.com/smw/), which is generated based on log files stored in a HDFS cluster and processed with Hadoop. At least it was like this a few years ago, and as far as I know they haven't changed it. Having all this information available is certainly valuable to Opera and both their current and potential customers. Any pressure to be more evil is countered by a few things: the scandinavian culture and the developers. In general, it is in scandinavians' nature to be nice to other people, so doing evil things don't come naturally in most cases. Really. Afer all, we're socialists. Of course there are plenty of non-scandinavians at Opera, but when I was there a few years ago the corporate culture was still scandinavian. Also, the developers have traditionally had a lot to say at Opera, probably partly because of the scandinavian culture, and partly due to corporate culture instilled by the founders. They are also very vocal about their opinions, and are against doing evil things. Actually, the Opera Mini team has been especially concerned about this. However, Opera Mini servers are located in countries around the world, and will be subject to local laws, so use and abuse of this may not always be in Opera's hands.
JoeAltmaier 15y ago
Confused: I read here (HN) that Opera is substituting ads on web pages, subverting every websites revenue scheme with their own. Not true?

nupark2 15y ago

Opera Mini is likely not causing any uproar because they're a 2nd or 3rd tier browser. They're not a 1st tier browser, and they're certainly not the default browser on a 1st tier platform. Amazon, however, is making a play to be a 1st tier Apple-style comprehensive platform for mobile devices, media, and applications, and they're shipping "Silk" as the default browser.

eli 15y ago
Opera Mini is indeed the default browser on several phones. It's one of the few discernable ways that Opera makes any money. Granted, nothing as popular as the Fire is likely to be.