6 ms·

He's crazy to assume that the Kindle Fire isn't competitive with the iPad, or that the $199 price point isn't going to at least partially inform the pricing of

He's crazy to assume that the Kindle Fire isn't competitive with the iPad, or that the $199 price point isn't going to at least partially inform the pricing of the iPad 3. The days of the $700 tablet are over.

krishna2 15y ago
I agree. I also think that the damage is going to be more for current-android-tablet makers, such as Samsung, Acer, Asus, Viewsonic ..etc. More so to the ones who price their tablets above $400. Everyone's going to compare them to the Fire and say, "Why even consider anything when I can get this for half the price?". Pretty safe to say, Amazon's tablet is going to beat all the other android-tablets.
- jeffreymcmanus 15y ago
  It's hard to know what to do with that information in a world in which the current android tablet makers can barely give their devices away.
- anigbrowl 15y ago
  That makes no sense. I think $199 is a great deal for a 7" tablet, and they will sell like hotcakes. But anyone selling a $400+ tablet is offering a 10.1" screen. This is a completely different user experience, and very likely a different market. Persoanlly, I don't even understand the attraction of a 7" tablet. I'm quite OK with paying 2x the price for something that's about the same size as a sheet of paper or a textbook, however.
tewks 15y ago
He's not crazy and that conclusion is not unique to gruber. The screen area of the iPad is nearly 2x that of the fire. Resolution is 1.3x but pixel density will increase on iPad3. They are about as competitive as a 15" laptop is to a netbook: not very as they are physically quite different. The price difference reflects this.
- jeffreymcmanus 15y ago
  Consumers are funny, though. They don't really care about stats; that kind of data is for geeks, who are not the target audience for this at all. And don't forget Christensen's adage that the truly disruptive technology is typically a little bit worse and a whole lot cheaper than the incumbent technology. One way or another, there are some big advantages to a smaller screen.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Consumes don’t care about stuff they can’t (easily) see. Pixel density, probably. 10" and 7" tablets are, however, sufficiently different.
- alex_c 15y ago
  No one buys tablets by the square yard, though. Lots of people seem to say that a 10" tablet is inherently better than a 7" tablet, but I think the market is still far too young to really know the winning form factor.
  - tewks 15y ago
    Actually, people do in fact choose tablets and laptops based on size. I'm not suggesting that either size is superior. They are clearly different. Anecdotally, I find that the iPad size is great for a table/lap, but less great for holding, while I love the size/shape/weight of the Kindle2 for reading. I don't think any particular size will win out.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  Let me quote something that was said about the iPod on its launch: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
spiralganglion 15y ago
As soon as we see people getting work done on the Kindle Fire, I'll grant you that. If your work involves a lot of writing, then the iPad isn't an obvious boon [1]. But if you can do your work more efficiently by treating data and actions as symbols, the iPad is just overflowing with potential, much of it already being realized. Musicians, artists, animators, logicians, teachers, doctors, researchers; the list of professions offered new ways to work is getting longer and longer. To these people, the iPad can be life-changing. I don't think the Kindle Fire will change anything. It's just not in Amazon's DNA to make a product focused on anything other than buying and consuming content — and there's never been a shortage of ways to buy things. [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/09/doable-or-not-my-experience-with-working-for-ars-on-the-ipad.ars/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/09/doable-or-not-my-e...
- jgmatpdx 15y ago
  Logicians? I'm not seeing the iPad app to write math papers without, y'know, writing.
  - spiralganglion 15y ago
    Logic is a game of symbols and relationships. The iPad is the best tool I've ever seen for working with symbols and relationships.
    - jgmatpdx 15y ago
      Being a practicing mathematician means generating and publishing results. I am interested to see your iPad app for diagonalization results or computability proofs.
    - zheng 15y ago
      Have you ever seen a whiteboard? I do anything remotely logic based on one.
      - jgmatpdx 15y ago
Steko 15y ago
Despite 10 years of evidence to the contrary people keep telling themselves that Apple is going to change their device pricing due to pressure from the rest of the market. Good luck this time.
- jemfinch 15y ago
  Only ten years of evidence? I still remember the Performa lines costing twice as much as a comparable PC. I wouldn't go so far as to call Apple products Veblen goods, but they're pretty close, and I don't see iPad's $500 pricing harming it in any way.
  - Steko 15y ago
    Just using '10 years' as weak shorthand for the last time I could remember anyone was right about Apple cutting prices. Certainly they did in the clone era (-1997) and you can argue the original iMac as well (thru 2002 when the sunflower debuted).
- guywithabike 15y ago
  Remember when people said the iPod was doomed because of cheaper competition? That didn't work out so hot, I hear.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    And yet apple still released the shuffle... Weird huh?
    - tomkarlo 15y ago
      Did they release it because they were losing money to competitors, or because they were leaving money on the table with their existing price points? I suspect the latter.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
nextparadigms 15y ago
I agree, the HP Touchpad firesale, and the Kindle will have serious long term impact on the public's perception of what a tablet (any tablet) should cost. According to some surveys[1], most people view the $500 price for a tablet as premium anyway, and it's about the maximum price they would pay, which might mean even though Apple sells most tablets right now, they're probably selling them only to that niche market that think a tablet is worth $500. The $200 pricing range hasn't been explored properly yet, and I think when it will be, a lot more people will become interested in tablets. We'll probably see an avalanche of "good enough" $200 tablets next year. [1] - http://gigaom.com/mobile/heres-how-much-consumers-will-pay-for-a-tablet/ http://gigaom.com/mobile/heres-how-much-consumers-will-pay-f...

krishna2 15y ago

I agree. I also think that the damage is going to be more for current-android-tablet makers, such as Samsung, Acer, Asus, Viewsonic ..etc. More so to the ones who price their tablets above $400. Everyone's going to compare them to the Fire and say, "Why even consider anything when I can get this for half the price?". Pretty safe to say, Amazon's tablet is going to beat all the other android-tablets.

jeffreymcmanus 15y ago
It's hard to know what to do with that information in a world in which the current android tablet makers can barely give their devices away.
anigbrowl 15y ago
That makes no sense. I think $199 is a great deal for a 7" tablet, and they will sell like hotcakes. But anyone selling a $400+ tablet is offering a 10.1" screen. This is a completely different user experience, and very likely a different market. Persoanlly, I don't even understand the attraction of a 7" tablet. I'm quite OK with paying 2x the price for something that's about the same size as a sheet of paper or a textbook, however.

tewks 15y ago

He's not crazy and that conclusion is not unique to gruber. The screen area of the iPad is nearly 2x that of the fire. Resolution is 1.3x but pixel density will increase on iPad3. They are about as competitive as a 15" laptop is to a netbook: not very as they are physically quite different. The price difference reflects this.

jeffreymcmanus 15y ago
Consumers are funny, though. They don't really care about stats; that kind of data is for geeks, who are not the target audience for this at all. And don't forget Christensen's adage that the truly disruptive technology is typically a little bit worse and a whole lot cheaper than the incumbent technology. One way or another, there are some big advantages to a smaller screen.
- ugh 15y ago
  Consumes don’t care about stuff they can’t (easily) see. Pixel density, probably. 10" and 7" tablets are, however, sufficiently different.
alex_c 15y ago
No one buys tablets by the square yard, though. Lots of people seem to say that a 10" tablet is inherently better than a 7" tablet, but I think the market is still far too young to really know the winning form factor.
- tewks 15y ago
  Actually, people do in fact choose tablets and laptops based on size. I'm not suggesting that either size is superior. They are clearly different. Anecdotally, I find that the iPad size is great for a table/lap, but less great for holding, while I love the size/shape/weight of the Kindle2 for reading. I don't think any particular size will win out.
rbanffy 15y ago
Let me quote something that was said about the iPod on its launch: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

spiralganglion 15y ago

As soon as we see people getting work done on the Kindle Fire, I'll grant you that. If your work involves a lot of writing, then the iPad isn't an obvious boon [1]. But if you can do your work more efficiently by treating data and actions as symbols, the iPad is just overflowing with potential, much of it already being realized. Musicians, artists, animators, logicians, teachers, doctors, researchers; the list of professions offered new ways to work is getting longer and longer. To these people, the iPad can be life-changing. I don't think the Kindle Fire will change anything. It's just not in Amazon's DNA to make a product focused on anything other than buying and consuming content — and there's never been a shortage of ways to buy things. [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/09/doable-or-not-my-experience-with-working-for-ars-on-the-ipad.ars/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/09/doable-or-not-my-e...

jgmatpdx 15y ago
Logicians? I'm not seeing the iPad app to write math papers without, y'know, writing.
- spiralganglion 15y ago
  Logic is a game of symbols and relationships. The iPad is the best tool I've ever seen for working with symbols and relationships.
  - jgmatpdx 15y ago
    Being a practicing mathematician means generating and publishing results. I am interested to see your iPad app for diagonalization results or computability proofs.
  - zheng 15y ago
    Have you ever seen a whiteboard? I do anything remotely logic based on one.
    - jgmatpdx 15y ago

Steko 15y ago

Despite 10 years of evidence to the contrary people keep telling themselves that Apple is going to change their device pricing due to pressure from the rest of the market. Good luck this time.

jemfinch 15y ago
Only ten years of evidence? I still remember the Performa lines costing twice as much as a comparable PC. I wouldn't go so far as to call Apple products Veblen goods, but they're pretty close, and I don't see iPad's $500 pricing harming it in any way.
- Steko 15y ago
  Just using '10 years' as weak shorthand for the last time I could remember anyone was right about Apple cutting prices. Certainly they did in the clone era (-1997) and you can argue the original iMac as well (thru 2002 when the sunflower debuted).
guywithabike 15y ago
Remember when people said the iPod was doomed because of cheaper competition? That didn't work out so hot, I hear.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  And yet apple still released the shuffle... Weird huh?
  - tomkarlo 15y ago
    Did they release it because they were losing money to competitors, or because they were leaving money on the table with their existing price points? I suspect the latter.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago

nextparadigms 15y ago

I agree, the HP Touchpad firesale, and the Kindle will have serious long term impact on the public's perception of what a tablet (any tablet) should cost. According to some surveys[1], most people view the $500 price for a tablet as premium anyway, and it's about the maximum price they would pay, which might mean even though Apple sells most tablets right now, they're probably selling them only to that niche market that think a tablet is worth $500. The $200 pricing range hasn't been explored properly yet, and I think when it will be, a lot more people will become interested in tablets. We'll probably see an avalanche of "good enough" $200 tablets next year. [1] - http://gigaom.com/mobile/heres-how-much-consumers-will-pay-for-a-tablet/ http://gigaom.com/mobile/heres-how-much-consumers-will-pay-f...