5 ms·

Either the customers who care about privacy trust you, or they don't. Let n cases show up in the news where US-companies are ignoring the respective rulings and

Either the customers who care about privacy trust you, or they don't. Let n cases show up in the news where US-companies are ignoring the respective rulings and the US-market will simply lose any attraction it still has left for european customers. If I have the choice between an american service and a european one, I'll choose the latter every single time, because I wouldn't trust american companies, the american government, or american citizens at all. Your comment isn't the reason why, but very likely stems from the same causes. Also, the public sector matters a lot here: they can't risk to have the data going to the US when they are legally mandated to keep it in Europe. This demand already exists and won't go anywhere, leading to all kinds of services being re-engineered on european soil. Eventually any company who doesn't respect their users privacy will probably be phased out by a european alternative - at least for the customers who care about that sort of thing. Europe made very clear that it does, but sure, time will tell what disrespecting that market segment will do to market shares.

jtbayly 5y ago
You do realize the vast majority of websites don’t even have customers, right? Ask me how much I care whether my non-existent customers decide they don’t want to be my customer. And I’ll ask you how in the world a visitor to my website is supposed to know or care whether my site is hosted in the US or EU. I’m not even 100% sure myself.
- hans1729 5y ago
  >And I’ll ask you how in the world a visitor to my website is supposed to know or care whether my site is hosted in the US or EU. I’m not even 100% sure myself. Pretty sure we'll see indicators for that in browsers in the foreseeable future. The internet will be a much more zoned-space in the future, so much seems obvious. > You do realize the vast majority of websites don’t even have customers, right? customer <- visitor
rpdillon 5y ago
This path leads towards the balkanization of the web, which is a step backward in my estimation. This tool reports that static sites with no JS, no cookies, and no third-party requests are in violation because they are hosted in a place other than the EU. That surprises me greatly. It seems from your comments downthread that this is the direction you see things going (i.e. a more fragmented internet), and that may be correct, but I see it as a huge loss, and I _highly_ doubt it will solve any of the privacy problems we have. Now that I think about it, if an IP address is PII, and leaking PII outside of the EU is a violation, I wonder if any P2P network can be legal in the EU, since P2P networks leak IPs globally. How would IPFS or Bittorrent work? A quick search shows that this is indeed an issue, and the most P2P networks don't support the necessary revocation of PII necessary. IEEE has an early access paper[0] about exactly this issue: > To comply with the criteria of the European Union's General Data Protection Regulation, it is important to ensure that personal data can be completely removed by their owners. To improve the privacy and security of the P2P file-sharing system, we propose a revocable and monitorable P2P file-sharing system over a consortium blockchain to achieve revocation of files in the decentralized environment. So, for everyone who said blockchain is a solution in search of a problem, I present GDPR-compliant P2P networks! I'm mostly kidding, my brief read through the abstract suggests this also requires a bunch of other heavy-handed measures, like securely verifying the P2P executable using Intel SGX. It's hard for me to imagine such a system gaining any sort of widespread use, but I've been wrong before. [0]: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9684748 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9684748

jtbayly 5y ago

You do realize the vast majority of websites don’t even have customers, right? Ask me how much I care whether my non-existent customers decide they don’t want to be my customer. And I’ll ask you how in the world a visitor to my website is supposed to know or care whether my site is hosted in the US or EU. I’m not even 100% sure myself.

hans1729 5y ago
>And I’ll ask you how in the world a visitor to my website is supposed to know or care whether my site is hosted in the US or EU. I’m not even 100% sure myself. Pretty sure we'll see indicators for that in browsers in the foreseeable future. The internet will be a much more zoned-space in the future, so much seems obvious. > You do realize the vast majority of websites don’t even have customers, right? customer <- visitor

rpdillon 5y ago

This path leads towards the balkanization of the web, which is a step backward in my estimation. This tool reports that static sites with no JS, no cookies, and no third-party requests are in violation because they are hosted in a place other than the EU. That surprises me greatly. It seems from your comments downthread that this is the direction you see things going (i.e. a more fragmented internet), and that may be correct, but I see it as a huge loss, and I _highly_ doubt it will solve any of the privacy problems we have. Now that I think about it, if an IP address is PII, and leaking PII outside of the EU is a violation, I wonder if any P2P network can be legal in the EU, since P2P networks leak IPs globally. How would IPFS or Bittorrent work? A quick search shows that this is indeed an issue, and the most P2P networks don't support the necessary revocation of PII necessary. IEEE has an early access paper[0] about exactly this issue: > To comply with the criteria of the European Union's General Data Protection Regulation, it is important to ensure that personal data can be completely removed by their owners. To improve the privacy and security of the P2P file-sharing system, we propose a revocable and monitorable P2P file-sharing system over a consortium blockchain to achieve revocation of files in the decentralized environment. So, for everyone who said blockchain is a solution in search of a problem, I present GDPR-compliant P2P networks! I'm mostly kidding, my brief read through the abstract suggests this also requires a bunch of other heavy-handed measures, like securely verifying the P2P executable using Intel SGX. It's hard for me to imagine such a system gaining any sort of widespread use, but I've been wrong before. [0]: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9684748 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9684748