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You're conflating completely unrelated things. NATO has a single purpose, and in no way was NATO invoked around Iraq even if states that are nembers of NATO did

You're conflating completely unrelated things. NATO has a single purpose, and in no way was NATO invoked around Iraq even if states that are nembers of NATO did cooperate in doing something at the time as a coalition of the willing. NATO was, and remains, a narrowly tailored defensive organization. No one need worry about NATO that isn't expansionist in nature. >West Sanctioning? Not NATO. Countries do what countries do, and soft power through weaponized control of financial system access is a very powerful weapon of international diplomacy which has exactly zero to do with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. >Horrendous war plans Good lord, you haven't even scratched the surface of horrendous war plans. Have you looked at Project Pluto? MKULTRA? COINTELPRO? I don't know much of other country's dirty laundry, but I assure you, everyone runs atrocity factories and develops war stratagem in anticipation of the worst case scenario. Welcome to life. No nice things allowed. No exceptions. Even if a member state has some atrocity cooking, guess what, still not NATO! NATO is an implementation of inter-nation coordination and signaling whereby one member state can notify other member states they are being invaded, thereby mustering a collective pushing in of the aggressor's crap. After the signaling is done, the rest of the implementation isn't on "NATO", it's on the member states doing things themselves. Good lord, I'm shouting at clouds again, but God bless. If you want to complain about the West; at least get your abstractions straight.

selfhoster11 5y ago
I strongly suspect parent is a Russian troll. I don't believe any HN poster can criticise the existence of NATO in good faith after literally seeing the fate of a nearby country that wasn't a part of it.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  This tired trope needs to die. Just because you encounter a viewpoint that is not aligned with what you were told to think about things by the talking heads on the television, doesn't mean there was a Russian agitprop campaign involved. Try to actually expand your understanding of the world, just a little bit. I'm simply a civilian member of a 5-eyes state, have traveled extensively around the world including eastern Europe and the Balkans, speak multiple languages, have a great deal of interest in cultures not my own - including those I've been told by autocrats that I should 'hate', and as a result of decades of applying constant, vigilant attention to the Wests' war crimes, I am simply quite well-informed about the very real, actual war crimes and crimes against humanity that have been committed by NATO member states in the last twenty years, as well as the criminal actions of Western governments in suppressing any attempt to prosecute the very real war criminals who committed these crimes against humanity, in my name. Informing myself about the crimes committed in my name is something I consider of vital importance to existence in the modern world. Why aren't you equally informed? What investment do you have in the Wests' ability to commit war crimes with impunity?
- salawat 5y ago
  It's a tough thing to do, tbh. In my younger days, I've been blinded by rage at seeming atrocity gone unmet, only to realize later in life that given the way things are structured, and how reality works, there was simply no way to actually facilitate the desired change in the world without learning how it actually works. It's a sovereignty thing, and different places will see it differently, We have to temper the urge to stonewall with a willingness to pass on the requisite knowledge to initiate the uninitiated into an understanding of how things work. Then again, only so many hours in a day. I've said my piece.

selfhoster11 5y ago

I strongly suspect parent is a Russian troll. I don't believe any HN poster can criticise the existence of NATO in good faith after literally seeing the fate of a nearby country that wasn't a part of it.

boffinAudio 5y ago
This tired trope needs to die. Just because you encounter a viewpoint that is not aligned with what you were told to think about things by the talking heads on the television, doesn't mean there was a Russian agitprop campaign involved. Try to actually expand your understanding of the world, just a little bit. I'm simply a civilian member of a 5-eyes state, have traveled extensively around the world including eastern Europe and the Balkans, speak multiple languages, have a great deal of interest in cultures not my own - including those I've been told by autocrats that I should 'hate', and as a result of decades of applying constant, vigilant attention to the Wests' war crimes, I am simply quite well-informed about the very real, actual war crimes and crimes against humanity that have been committed by NATO member states in the last twenty years, as well as the criminal actions of Western governments in suppressing any attempt to prosecute the very real war criminals who committed these crimes against humanity, in my name. Informing myself about the crimes committed in my name is something I consider of vital importance to existence in the modern world. Why aren't you equally informed? What investment do you have in the Wests' ability to commit war crimes with impunity?
salawat 5y ago
It's a tough thing to do, tbh. In my younger days, I've been blinded by rage at seeming atrocity gone unmet, only to realize later in life that given the way things are structured, and how reality works, there was simply no way to actually facilitate the desired change in the world without learning how it actually works. It's a sovereignty thing, and different places will see it differently, We have to temper the urge to stonewall with a willingness to pass on the requisite knowledge to initiate the uninitiated into an understanding of how things work. Then again, only so many hours in a day. I've said my piece.