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Easy, use an stablecoin like DAI or MIM you can get also as much as 12% APY. Edit: previously I used the example USDC which you can argue can be controlled by

by jfroma 5y ago

Easy, use an stablecoin like DAI or MIM you can get also as much as 12% APY. Edit: previously I used the example USDC which you can argue can be controlled by Coinbase.

haakon 5y ago
Earning interest like that requires leaving your money with a custodian, which negates any protection against confiscation.
- jfroma 5y ago
  No, checkout decentralized finances (DeFi). You are leaving your money with an smart contract, which is an inmutable piece of software. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance
  - ptx 5y ago
    So they must have solved the problem of writing completely bug-free software then? Otherwise leaving your money with an unpatchable service seems like a really bad idea.
    - jfroma 5y ago
      I can see you didn't click the link otherwise you will have read the section about that. "They" didn't solve that problem, it is not the solution to all problems in finances. So, whats your point? Vaccines does not prevent 100% of infections, does that means that they are worthless? Nirvana fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
      - ptx 5y ago
        Which section are you referring to? The one that says "Coding errors and hacks are common in DeFi"? You said that the contract, i.e. the software, is immutable. This means that it can't be patched. If it can be patched it's not immutable, excepting semantic trickery like each version of the contract being immutable while what "the contract" points to can be changed in order to patch it.
lottin 5y ago
And if you buy Turkish bonds you may get as much as 53%. Your point is?
- jfroma 5y ago
  Fair point, I shouldn't have mention that you can put your stable coins into a DeFi protocol because even if that's interesting is not the point of the answer. I wanted to address that in the world of crypto there are stable assets pegged to some other FIAT if you want that. Sorry if this becomes long but I need to explain my point of view. I live in a country that is not as authoritarian as Russia but is not a free economy like the US, people don't trust on FIAT and on banks because it had happened before that they took all our savings [1]. Even if this might seem like an isolated event, it happens every day. For example, if you work remote for a company abroad, the gov will exchange your USD on a wire transfer for the local currency and then not allow you to buy back USD. Our currency had a 60% of inflation last year. I don't like the speculative aspect of crypto currencies, its volatility creeps me out. I wouldn't want to put my life saving on this. But I can see its value to circumvent corrupt governments and to make a free world. I do believe in humanity, the Putins are an exception and when you give people the opportunity to collaborate, most of them will choose to have a peaceful living. Now, going back to your Turkish bonds vs DeFi. The difference is you can't buy those anonymously and at any point the gov. or exchange. They actually pay that much because no one wants to buy them, primarly because they don't trust they are going to pay that much. In a way, you can think of DeFi protocols are immutable math functions [2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance
  - lottin 5y ago
    It's true. Crypto-currencies operate in a black market and therefore enable people to circumvent financial regulations. But circumventing regulations put up by incompetent governments doesn't address the root of the problem which is the fact that you have an incompetent government, and this has a whole range of consequences that go beyond mere currency issues, and that you won't be able to "circumvent" with or without crypto-currencies. So, in my opinion, you really need to address the problem and abandon the illusion that crypto-currencies will fix anything.

by jfroma 5y ago

Easy, use an stablecoin like DAI or MIM you can get also as much as 12% APY. Edit: previously I used the example USDC which you can argue can be controlled by Coinbase.

haakon 5y ago

Earning interest like that requires leaving your money with a custodian, which negates any protection against confiscation.

jfroma 5y ago
No, checkout decentralized finances (DeFi). You are leaving your money with an smart contract, which is an inmutable piece of software. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance
- ptx 5y ago
  So they must have solved the problem of writing completely bug-free software then? Otherwise leaving your money with an unpatchable service seems like a really bad idea.
  - jfroma 5y ago
    I can see you didn't click the link otherwise you will have read the section about that. "They" didn't solve that problem, it is not the solution to all problems in finances. So, whats your point? Vaccines does not prevent 100% of infections, does that means that they are worthless? Nirvana fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
    - ptx 5y ago
      Which section are you referring to? The one that says "Coding errors and hacks are common in DeFi"? You said that the contract, i.e. the software, is immutable. This means that it can't be patched. If it can be patched it's not immutable, excepting semantic trickery like each version of the contract being immutable while what "the contract" points to can be changed in order to patch it.

lottin 5y ago

And if you buy Turkish bonds you may get as much as 53%. Your point is?

jfroma 5y ago
Fair point, I shouldn't have mention that you can put your stable coins into a DeFi protocol because even if that's interesting is not the point of the answer. I wanted to address that in the world of crypto there are stable assets pegged to some other FIAT if you want that. Sorry if this becomes long but I need to explain my point of view. I live in a country that is not as authoritarian as Russia but is not a free economy like the US, people don't trust on FIAT and on banks because it had happened before that they took all our savings [1]. Even if this might seem like an isolated event, it happens every day. For example, if you work remote for a company abroad, the gov will exchange your USD on a wire transfer for the local currency and then not allow you to buy back USD. Our currency had a 60% of inflation last year. I don't like the speculative aspect of crypto currencies, its volatility creeps me out. I wouldn't want to put my life saving on this. But I can see its value to circumvent corrupt governments and to make a free world. I do believe in humanity, the Putins are an exception and when you give people the opportunity to collaborate, most of them will choose to have a peaceful living. Now, going back to your Turkish bonds vs DeFi. The difference is you can't buy those anonymously and at any point the gov. or exchange. They actually pay that much because no one wants to buy them, primarly because they don't trust they are going to pay that much. In a way, you can think of DeFi protocols are immutable math functions [2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance
- lottin 5y ago
  It's true. Crypto-currencies operate in a black market and therefore enable people to circumvent financial regulations. But circumventing regulations put up by incompetent governments doesn't address the root of the problem which is the fact that you have an incompetent government, and this has a whole range of consequences that go beyond mere currency issues, and that you won't be able to "circumvent" with or without crypto-currencies. So, in my opinion, you really need to address the problem and abandon the illusion that crypto-currencies will fix anything.