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>Hitler had allies Last I heard, the governments of China and India were conspicuously refusing to condemn the invasion. It doesn't seem unthinkable to me tha

by vba616 5y ago

>Hitler had allies Last I heard, the governments of China and India were conspicuously refusing to condemn the invasion. It doesn't seem unthinkable to me that a large part of the globe wants and feels they deserve, a "new world order" where the US takes a less hegemonic role and institutional influence is adjusted to reflect the modern world a bit more.

scythe 5y ago
Allies join you, they don't quietly remain neutral. India isn't joining Russia in a world war. Certainly not with China. China, meanwhile, is the superpower in the room and unless they've developed an invisibility cloak they haven't exactly been preparing for a superpower-level struggle. (Yes, they're building up their military, but so is everyone else, and it's been at a consistent pace for two decades.) >It doesn't seem unthinkable to me that a large part of the globe wants and feels they deserve, a "new world order" where the US takes a less hegemonic role It doesn't "seem unthinkable" because they've been literally saying that for half a century. That doesn't mean they want to work with the second coming of Christian nationalism. Anyone who's worked in diplomacy in the global South knows it's hard enough for them to work with each other.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Yeah. Belarus is an actual ally. China has been allergic to the word "invasion", perhaps because they don't want it thrown at them if they attack Taiwan. But China is not happy with Russia over this.
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    "puppet state" is a better word. "Alley" is misleading in that it sounds as if the dictator there has any choice except than doing what Putin tells him.
  - vba616 5y ago
    >China is not happy with Russia over this Current events in Ukraine seem like the perfect experiment to see if taking Taiwan is possible. If it's really, really useful, I don't see how happy/unhappy would enter into it. What does "actual ally" mean, according to experts? Was the USSR an actual ally of anyone in WWII? The US sent a zillion dollars worth of Jeeps and spam on the basis of shared interests, not true friendship.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      "Actual ally" as in "they let Russia launch part of the invasion from their territory". Even more: Belarus is at least talking about sending their own troops as well.
- vba616 5y ago
  >It doesn't "seem unthinkable" because they've been literally saying that for half a century. I was trying for understatement. >That doesn't mean they want to work with the second coming of Christian nationalism No...I suppose not. But if they don't, why be neutral? What if they take the "Christian nationalism" as superficial? What if "want" is immaterial to a reality of working with the existing situation? >Anyone who's worked in diplomacy in the global South knows it's hard enough for them to work with each other. You sound knowledgeable. I didn't know that China was part of the global South. Are you scoffing at the idea that China would work with Russia, or just reacting to the mention of India? Specifically, is it completely absurd to you to suspect that the fruits of the OPM breach were sent by China to Moscow?
  - scythe 5y ago
    >I didn't know that China was part of the global South. China was ruled out separately; the remaining countries are either opposed to Russia, very small, or reasonably described as "global South". Your other points are similarly vacuous, and your attitude gives me no reason to continue this conversation.
    - vba616 5y ago
      You addressed me like I was an imbecile, I say you sound like you know something, and now you won't answer questions because of my attitude. I'm genuinely disappointed not to hear more of your wisdom. I know that being an asshole and being wrong are different things.

by vba616 5y ago

scythe 5y ago

Allies join you, they don't quietly remain neutral. India isn't joining Russia in a world war. Certainly not with China. China, meanwhile, is the superpower in the room and unless they've developed an invisibility cloak they haven't exactly been preparing for a superpower-level struggle. (Yes, they're building up their military, but so is everyone else, and it's been at a consistent pace for two decades.) >It doesn't seem unthinkable to me that a large part of the globe wants and feels they deserve, a "new world order" where the US takes a less hegemonic role It doesn't "seem unthinkable" because they've been literally saying that for half a century. That doesn't mean they want to work with the second coming of Christian nationalism. Anyone who's worked in diplomacy in the global South knows it's hard enough for them to work with each other.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Yeah. Belarus is an actual ally. China has been allergic to the word "invasion", perhaps because they don't want it thrown at them if they attack Taiwan. But China is not happy with Russia over this.
- cutemonster 5y ago
  "puppet state" is a better word. "Alley" is misleading in that it sounds as if the dictator there has any choice except than doing what Putin tells him.
- vba616 5y ago
  >China is not happy with Russia over this Current events in Ukraine seem like the perfect experiment to see if taking Taiwan is possible. If it's really, really useful, I don't see how happy/unhappy would enter into it. What does "actual ally" mean, according to experts? Was the USSR an actual ally of anyone in WWII? The US sent a zillion dollars worth of Jeeps and spam on the basis of shared interests, not true friendship.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    "Actual ally" as in "they let Russia launch part of the invasion from their territory". Even more: Belarus is at least talking about sending their own troops as well.
vba616 5y ago
>It doesn't "seem unthinkable" because they've been literally saying that for half a century. I was trying for understatement. >That doesn't mean they want to work with the second coming of Christian nationalism No...I suppose not. But if they don't, why be neutral? What if they take the "Christian nationalism" as superficial? What if "want" is immaterial to a reality of working with the existing situation? >Anyone who's worked in diplomacy in the global South knows it's hard enough for them to work with each other. You sound knowledgeable. I didn't know that China was part of the global South. Are you scoffing at the idea that China would work with Russia, or just reacting to the mention of India? Specifically, is it completely absurd to you to suspect that the fruits of the OPM breach were sent by China to Moscow?
- scythe 5y ago
  >I didn't know that China was part of the global South. China was ruled out separately; the remaining countries are either opposed to Russia, very small, or reasonably described as "global South". Your other points are similarly vacuous, and your attitude gives me no reason to continue this conversation.
  - vba616 5y ago
    You addressed me like I was an imbecile, I say you sound like you know something, and now you won't answer questions because of my attitude. I'm genuinely disappointed not to hear more of your wisdom. I know that being an asshole and being wrong are different things.