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I have lately felt very underpaid, given the current crazy job market for developers. I’m at a FAANG which supposedly pays “market rate,” but it doesn’t seem tr

I have lately felt very underpaid, given the current crazy job market for developers. I’m at a FAANG which supposedly pays “market rate,” but it doesn’t seem true in practice. Why play the promo and comp game, spending months or years proving the value of your hard work, when you can just jump ship for an instant level-up? I basically have a negative incentive to stay, even though I really like my job and I’m pretty good at it. Very frustrating.

manuelmenzella 5y ago
I'm curious: have you compared your comp to that of levels.fyi?
- aluminum96 5y ago
  Yeah. It comes in around the 20th percentile, both on levels.fyi and compared to informal internal data. Edit: I think the reason for this is that I went over a “four-year vesting cliff,” and you really need at least 2 promos to surmount the cliff. Perhaps I’m being sent an implicit message, up or out.
  - solarmist 5y ago
    Yup. This.
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    What level are you? SWE I/L3/E3, SWE II/L4/E4, SWE III/L5/E5, etc?
    - aluminum96 5y ago
      SWEII/L4
  - keehun 5y ago
    What do you mean by this?
    - milesskorpen 5y ago
      When you join a company you typically get a larger than normal RSU grant that vests over 4 years. Every year you get new, typically smaller, grants. The compound effect is that your compensation will decrease in year 5, when your initial grant expires. For example, using my company with relative numbers: Initial grant: $200 Refresher grants: $100 Y1 = $50 = $50 total RSU compensation Y2 = $50 + $25 = $75 Y3 = $50 + $25 + $25 = $100 Y4 = $50 + $25 + $25 + $25 = $125 Y5 = $00 + $25 + $25 + $25 + $25 = $100 < DECREASE This can be compounded if your company's valuation has increased substantially in this period. The difference between initial and refresher can also be significantly larger than 2x To stick at the $125/year and not see a drop in compensation, you'd want to be getting larger refresher grants which typically require promotions.
      - keehun 5y ago
        Makes sense!
    - rr808 5y ago
      Its common in all firms (not just IT) that companies expect you to either get promoted or move on to another job. If you're doing the same thing after 5 years you're probably not a star employee and some firms will actively try to get rid of you. I honestly like working 5+ years on one project so kinda resent being told I'm not great, but that's what it is. https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Up-or-Out-Solving-the-IT-Turnover-Crisis https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Up-or-Out-Solving-the-IT-Tu...
ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
Yup. There's literally no reason. My manager keeps bringing up the next year of hard work ahead of me to make it to the next level, and it makes me want to puke. I can just leave now for another company to get to that level. But the truth is also that the interviews are tough, leetcoding and system design is not easy without alot of study
- mooreds 5y ago
  > But the truth is also that the interviews are tough, leetcoding and system design is not easy without alot of study Very true. There is also the fact that when you are in a company, you know the pitfalls and areas to avoid (or at least you might have a chance to do so). When you are moving to a newco, you have less insight (hence the power of the backchannel reference check; good for candidates as well as employers). That said, the issue of comp not changing without job hopping seems to be a big one. There've been several good discussions here and elsewhere about it. Here's a favorite twitter convo: https://twitter.com/QuinnyPig/status/1484071572314804224 https://twitter.com/QuinnyPig/status/1484071572314804224
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  I find the idea of managers still thinking of employees in terms of years to be fascinating. In Canada at least, 2 years makes you an absolute veteran at many companies.
  - Lascaille 5y ago
    >In Canada at least, 2 years makes you an absolute veteran at many companies. This explains the absolute state of many companies. Zero institutional knowledge, and no, a Wiki doesn't cut it.
    - MattGaiser 5y ago
      And devs aren't really incentivized to develop any. You will be gone in a year anyway.
    - ihateolives 5y ago
ohyoutravel 5y ago
I like the people I work with, they’re very talented and we all get along exceedingly well where we lift each other up by bouncing ideas and having discussions, the job is complex and energizing, the mission is strong and exciting, and I have a ton of autonomy to choose the path forward. I think I make about 85% of market for my job anecdotally, but I wouldn’t leave the above even for 120% market for simply jump ship and “level-up.” My point is that despite what others in the comment chain state, there are reasons to stay at a place other than simply a little more money, especially when you consider that at our level already puts us deep into the 1% overall.
- hateful 5y ago
  As I said right before I left my last job (luckily I've been very fortunate at my current one): "I love what I do and I love the people I work with - but I didn't come here for love."
  - gxs 5y ago
    Exactly. It’s not leaving for a 30% raise. There is a compounding effect. You’re leaving so that in a few years it’s a 200-300% raise relative to what you’re making now. That said, I don’t begrudge anyone staying for “love”. If you’re happy then that’s great. I’m happiest when I’m at least making an effort to make as much as I can.
    - ozim 5y ago
      Why not 300% right away? Why would change of company first to 30% make you get 300% later? You don't have obligation to expose your current salary so you can demand 300% right away. If you think you will have enough skills to earn 300% go for it.
      - gxs 5y ago
        There are other things that go into it: but-in-the-seat time, titles, etc.
  - 5y ago
creakingstairs 5y ago
I feel you. It has been very frustrating for me too. I was being definitely underpaid and the raises they promised was very low (even when they said I got the highest possible raise). Even though I loved the team and work, I couldn't justify the pay gap so I jumped ship. I immediately got 50% raise by doing this. I really do wish there had been a way to stay because I would have stayed maybe with 30% raise.
outside1234 5y ago
Get an offer from another FAANG and then have your current team match it. I have managed people in your situation and, honestly, nothing makes me happier than being able to match the incoming offer because the internal system makes it impossible for me to do the right thing.

manuelmenzella 5y ago

I'm curious: have you compared your comp to that of levels.fyi?

aluminum96 5y ago
Yeah. It comes in around the 20th percentile, both on levels.fyi and compared to informal internal data. Edit: I think the reason for this is that I went over a “four-year vesting cliff,” and you really need at least 2 promos to surmount the cliff. Perhaps I’m being sent an implicit message, up or out.
- solarmist 5y ago
  Yup. This.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  What level are you? SWE I/L3/E3, SWE II/L4/E4, SWE III/L5/E5, etc?
  - aluminum96 5y ago
    SWEII/L4
- keehun 5y ago
  What do you mean by this?
  - milesskorpen 5y ago
    When you join a company you typically get a larger than normal RSU grant that vests over 4 years. Every year you get new, typically smaller, grants. The compound effect is that your compensation will decrease in year 5, when your initial grant expires. For example, using my company with relative numbers: Initial grant: $200 Refresher grants: $100 Y1 = $50 = $50 total RSU compensation Y2 = $50 + $25 = $75 Y3 = $50 + $25 + $25 = $100 Y4 = $50 + $25 + $25 + $25 = $125 Y5 = $00 + $25 + $25 + $25 + $25 = $100 < DECREASE This can be compounded if your company's valuation has increased substantially in this period. The difference between initial and refresher can also be significantly larger than 2x To stick at the $125/year and not see a drop in compensation, you'd want to be getting larger refresher grants which typically require promotions.
    - keehun 5y ago
      Makes sense!
  - rr808 5y ago
    Its common in all firms (not just IT) that companies expect you to either get promoted or move on to another job. If you're doing the same thing after 5 years you're probably not a star employee and some firms will actively try to get rid of you. I honestly like working 5+ years on one project so kinda resent being told I'm not great, but that's what it is. https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Up-or-Out-Solving-the-IT-Turnover-Crisis https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Up-or-Out-Solving-the-IT-Tu...

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago

Yup. There's literally no reason. My manager keeps bringing up the next year of hard work ahead of me to make it to the next level, and it makes me want to puke. I can just leave now for another company to get to that level. But the truth is also that the interviews are tough, leetcoding and system design is not easy without alot of study

mooreds 5y ago
> But the truth is also that the interviews are tough, leetcoding and system design is not easy without alot of study Very true. There is also the fact that when you are in a company, you know the pitfalls and areas to avoid (or at least you might have a chance to do so). When you are moving to a newco, you have less insight (hence the power of the backchannel reference check; good for candidates as well as employers). That said, the issue of comp not changing without job hopping seems to be a big one. There've been several good discussions here and elsewhere about it. Here's a favorite twitter convo: https://twitter.com/QuinnyPig/status/1484071572314804224 https://twitter.com/QuinnyPig/status/1484071572314804224
MattGaiser 5y ago
I find the idea of managers still thinking of employees in terms of years to be fascinating. In Canada at least, 2 years makes you an absolute veteran at many companies.
- Lascaille 5y ago
  >In Canada at least, 2 years makes you an absolute veteran at many companies. This explains the absolute state of many companies. Zero institutional knowledge, and no, a Wiki doesn't cut it.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    And devs aren't really incentivized to develop any. You will be gone in a year anyway.
  - ihateolives 5y ago

ohyoutravel 5y ago

I like the people I work with, they’re very talented and we all get along exceedingly well where we lift each other up by bouncing ideas and having discussions, the job is complex and energizing, the mission is strong and exciting, and I have a ton of autonomy to choose the path forward. I think I make about 85% of market for my job anecdotally, but I wouldn’t leave the above even for 120% market for simply jump ship and “level-up.” My point is that despite what others in the comment chain state, there are reasons to stay at a place other than simply a little more money, especially when you consider that at our level already puts us deep into the 1% overall.

hateful 5y ago
As I said right before I left my last job (luckily I've been very fortunate at my current one): "I love what I do and I love the people I work with - but I didn't come here for love."
- gxs 5y ago
  Exactly. It’s not leaving for a 30% raise. There is a compounding effect. You’re leaving so that in a few years it’s a 200-300% raise relative to what you’re making now. That said, I don’t begrudge anyone staying for “love”. If you’re happy then that’s great. I’m happiest when I’m at least making an effort to make as much as I can.
  - ozim 5y ago
    Why not 300% right away? Why would change of company first to 30% make you get 300% later? You don't have obligation to expose your current salary so you can demand 300% right away. If you think you will have enough skills to earn 300% go for it.
    - gxs 5y ago
      There are other things that go into it: but-in-the-seat time, titles, etc.
- 5y ago

creakingstairs 5y ago

I feel you. It has been very frustrating for me too. I was being definitely underpaid and the raises they promised was very low (even when they said I got the highest possible raise). Even though I loved the team and work, I couldn't justify the pay gap so I jumped ship. I immediately got 50% raise by doing this. I really do wish there had been a way to stay because I would have stayed maybe with 30% raise.

outside1234 5y ago

Get an offer from another FAANG and then have your current team match it. I have managed people in your situation and, honestly, nothing makes me happier than being able to match the incoming offer because the internal system makes it impossible for me to do the right thing.