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Is Ukraine totally blameless on this though? It seems like they allowed themselves to be duped by the self-serving prodding of the west. West: “dude, poke that

Is Ukraine totally blameless on this though? It seems like they allowed themselves to be duped by the self-serving prodding of the west. West: “dude, poke that bear. I promise we’ll be here to help you in case it attacks.” Ukraine: “here, hold my beer”

Mirioron 5y ago
I think even if Ukraine had done nothing they still would've been targeted by Russia. Look at Estonia[0] and Georgia[1]. You could think of them as preludes to what happened in Crimea. It's the same excuse - "we are here to protect Russians". Estonia didn't work out, but Georgia worked out well for Russia. They got away with Crimea too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
- a1445c8b 5y ago
  I agree with your assertion that they would’ve been invaded regardless. In that sense Ukraine’s recent actions only served to accelerate the invasion. That’s not to say Ukraine didn’t have valid reasons for their actions. Geopolitics is messy.
- foverzar 5y ago
  > Georgia Georgia is an even more evident example of destabilisation by foreign military–industrial complex than the Ukraine. At least Ukraine had some reasons for her action after Crimea. Georgia (or rather, Saakashvili) decided that if the US is selling them weapons and declaring public support, it would mean that they have an option of solving a century old ethnic conflict[0] by force. And that the West would support Georgia in inevitable confrontation against Russia, who obviously still remembers the Sochi Agreement it helped to broker under her guarantees. Regarding Estonia, I am not sure why you are trying to treat a country like an individual with a single point of view and not a collective of vastly different people. WWII memorials is obviously a sensitive topic, I am not sure why you think Russian government has something to do with it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conf...
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Mirioron 5y ago

I think even if Ukraine had done nothing they still would've been targeted by Russia. Look at Estonia[0] and Georgia[1]. You could think of them as preludes to what happened in Crimea. It's the same excuse - "we are here to protect Russians". Estonia didn't work out, but Georgia worked out well for Russia. They got away with Crimea too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

a1445c8b 5y ago
I agree with your assertion that they would’ve been invaded regardless. In that sense Ukraine’s recent actions only served to accelerate the invasion. That’s not to say Ukraine didn’t have valid reasons for their actions. Geopolitics is messy.
foverzar 5y ago
> Georgia Georgia is an even more evident example of destabilisation by foreign military–industrial complex than the Ukraine. At least Ukraine had some reasons for her action after Crimea. Georgia (or rather, Saakashvili) decided that if the US is selling them weapons and declaring public support, it would mean that they have an option of solving a century old ethnic conflict[0] by force. And that the West would support Georgia in inevitable confrontation against Russia, who obviously still remembers the Sochi Agreement it helped to broker under her guarantees. Regarding Estonia, I am not sure why you are trying to treat a country like an individual with a single point of view and not a collective of vastly different people. WWII memorials is obviously a sensitive topic, I am not sure why you think Russian government has something to do with it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conf...

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