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I don't think the parent meant that it's always easy to discern good from evil. The same way I don't think you believe in absolute bothsidesism. But in some ext

I don't think the parent meant that it's always easy to discern good from evil. The same way I don't think you believe in absolute bothsidesism. But in some extreme cases (such as current invasion of Ukraine or Nazism last century), it would be pretty hard to argue that there's not one better side. Switzerland isn't asked to pick sides in every single conflict. Starting with the clearest cut ones would be moral progress.

mancerayder 5y ago
I'm obviously absolutely pro-Ukraine, especially as I'm Western European, with Western European values and with a decided belief that Western European ideas are better than what's currently being offered - what Russia for example offers - as an alternative. And while rooting for the Ukrainian side, I can't even find the Russian perspective within the sphere of information and data, other than what Russians tell me, which sounds so completely different information-wise, that I wonder if we live on the same planets. In fact I got off the phone with a Russian friend a few hours ago, and I asked their perspective but replied nothing in response. It was literally 100% inverted: that the country was fighting fascism and was conned by the U.S. due to weapons treaties in the past. So the question is NOT about morals, whose are better - it's hard to find a villain in history with an army behind them, where each individual believed in their own evil. So the question is about information asymmetry, at the very least, a foggy issue we have to get past before we talk about morals. Again, I'm about 90% confident that the Russian side aren't behaving in good faith, but I leave that 10%. And most importantly I recognize my bias, in the superiority of Western European values, which means that I'm also biased with regards to those nations having the military upper hand. Which implies that even if the situation were much more ambiguous I would likely root for the Ukrainian side. I hope that does the opposite of clear up the issue! War is rarely a matter of good and evil purely. It's a muddled world we live in.
- azekai 5y ago
  Putin taking direct action to invade will result in needless Russian and Ukranian suffering and death. That seems plenty evil; and if he has deluded the majority of the population of Russia into believing that the current war is necessary, that is evil too.

mancerayder 5y ago

I'm obviously absolutely pro-Ukraine, especially as I'm Western European, with Western European values and with a decided belief that Western European ideas are better than what's currently being offered - what Russia for example offers - as an alternative. And while rooting for the Ukrainian side, I can't even find the Russian perspective within the sphere of information and data, other than what Russians tell me, which sounds so completely different information-wise, that I wonder if we live on the same planets. In fact I got off the phone with a Russian friend a few hours ago, and I asked their perspective but replied nothing in response. It was literally 100% inverted: that the country was fighting fascism and was conned by the U.S. due to weapons treaties in the past. So the question is NOT about morals, whose are better - it's hard to find a villain in history with an army behind them, where each individual believed in their own evil. So the question is about information asymmetry, at the very least, a foggy issue we have to get past before we talk about morals. Again, I'm about 90% confident that the Russian side aren't behaving in good faith, but I leave that 10%. And most importantly I recognize my bias, in the superiority of Western European values, which means that I'm also biased with regards to those nations having the military upper hand. Which implies that even if the situation were much more ambiguous I would likely root for the Ukrainian side. I hope that does the opposite of clear up the issue! War is rarely a matter of good and evil purely. It's a muddled world we live in.

azekai 5y ago
Putin taking direct action to invade will result in needless Russian and Ukranian suffering and death. That seems plenty evil; and if he has deluded the majority of the population of Russia into believing that the current war is necessary, that is evil too.