4 ms·

> the freaking EU of all organizations is saying they'll send them fighter jets For clarity, and despite Macron's urgings, the EU doesn't yet have an air force

> the freaking EU of all organizations is saying they'll send them fighter jets For clarity, and despite Macron's urgings, the EU doesn't yet have an air force it can send anywhere. It does have the Common Security and Defence Policy[0]: "The CSDP involves the deployment of military or civilian missions to preserve peace, prevent conflict and strengthen international security in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter. Military missions are carried out by EU forces established with secondments from the member states' armed forces" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Po...

scottLobster 5y ago
https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-borrell-01645994409 https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-je... It was the EU "High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy" speaking for various EU members.
anxrn 5y ago
They appear to have said [1] they'll supply (finance + deliver) aircraft (which presumably the Ukrainians have the expertise to operate, per [2]). They have not said they'll send in an air force (operated by non-Ukrainians), which as you point out, they don't yet have. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-close-airspace-russia-curb-media-target-belarus-2022-02-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-close-airspace-russi... [2] https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-borrell-01645994409 https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-je...
- petre 5y ago
  There are remaining MiG operators in Central and Eastern Europe. These planes have been converted to use NATO armament and they're being phased out anyway. Ukrainian pilots are already accustomed to using them. The EU could use resilience funds to buy F16, F35 or Saab Gripens for the former MiG operators. Some of these are already F16 or Saab Gripen operators.
  - yonaguska 5y ago
    Ukraine has no access to the air at this point anyways. I don't see this as plausible. No airports are secured, and Russia dominates the airspace right now. Even if NATO sends planes, how will they be transported there? And how will they establish a base of operations?
    - GauntletWizard 5y ago
      My guess is they'll initially sortie from Romania, maintaining IFF silence for plausible deniability, while a coordinated strike with man-and-vehicle portable SAMs retakes enough airspace in the western part of the country to support further operations.
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      - yrgulation 5y ago
        That explains a lot.
      - logifail 5y ago
        > plausible deniability You're proposing military aircraft owned by an EU member state should launch from their airfields in EU, sneak over the border and land in Ukraine, refuel and (re-)arm - and perhaps get a quick paint job too and have the aviation equivalent of their serial numbers filed off - then start attacking Russian forces in Ukraine, and our plan would be basically to hope that the enemy with apparently complete air superiority plus satellite capability might not notice? I'm firmly anti-war; that plan sounds like a great way to drag the EU and/or NATO straight into this one.
ed_balls 5y ago
Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria will give them MiGs

scottLobster 5y ago

https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-borrell-01645994409 https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-je... It was the EU "High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy" speaking for various EU members.

anxrn 5y ago

They appear to have said [1] they'll supply (finance + deliver) aircraft (which presumably the Ukrainians have the expertise to operate, per [2]). They have not said they'll send in an air force (operated by non-Ukrainians), which as you point out, they don't yet have. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-close-airspace-russia-curb-media-target-belarus-2022-02-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-close-airspace-russi... [2] https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-borrell-01645994409 https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-je...

petre 5y ago
There are remaining MiG operators in Central and Eastern Europe. These planes have been converted to use NATO armament and they're being phased out anyway. Ukrainian pilots are already accustomed to using them. The EU could use resilience funds to buy F16, F35 or Saab Gripens for the former MiG operators. Some of these are already F16 or Saab Gripen operators.
- yonaguska 5y ago
  Ukraine has no access to the air at this point anyways. I don't see this as plausible. No airports are secured, and Russia dominates the airspace right now. Even if NATO sends planes, how will they be transported there? And how will they establish a base of operations?
  - GauntletWizard 5y ago
    My guess is they'll initially sortie from Romania, maintaining IFF silence for plausible deniability, while a coordinated strike with man-and-vehicle portable SAMs retakes enough airspace in the western part of the country to support further operations.
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    - yrgulation 5y ago
      That explains a lot.
    - logifail 5y ago
      > plausible deniability You're proposing military aircraft owned by an EU member state should launch from their airfields in EU, sneak over the border and land in Ukraine, refuel and (re-)arm - and perhaps get a quick paint job too and have the aviation equivalent of their serial numbers filed off - then start attacking Russian forces in Ukraine, and our plan would be basically to hope that the enemy with apparently complete air superiority plus satellite capability might not notice? I'm firmly anti-war; that plan sounds like a great way to drag the EU and/or NATO straight into this one.

ed_balls 5y ago

Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria will give them MiGs