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I mean, when you think about the eventual heat death of the universe, nothing really matters in the end. Embrace nihilism.

scottLobster 5y ago
The problem with nihilism is, despite being logically coherent, it isn't useful. No society is built on meaninglessness. You have to have faith in something that isn't logically provable to provide base assumptions for whatever your value system is. If Cavemen were nihilists, we'd never have figured out fire.
- xyzzy123 5y ago
  I think nihilism provides value in the same way that "rock bottom" does for an alcoholic. On a practical basis my life is mostly habit, obligation and pre-framed viewpoints that I accept unreflectively for entirely pragmatic reasons. Which is fine, otherwise you spend a lot of time wondering what a table is, why do anything, etc, but stripping back your beliefs to as close to nothing as you can is an experience worth going through at least once in your life - there's no way to viscerally understand axioms except to think about why they are there, and why they can't be different. Yes, nihilism can prompt personal crisis or even suicide. But the experience is fundamental even if we don't name it, so the idea provides utility to society because it gives us a vocabulary and a framework for processing the experience of rejecting and understanding meaning itself. You can't have true agency without understanding that meaning itself is a construct. A culture which recognises crisis of meaning is a deeper culture than one which perhaps recognises that some situations are "sad" or that sometimes things are tactically difficult ,or that some people might have conflicting interests (looking at you Disney). Personally I think nihilism is a key stage in moral development "for people who think real hard about stuff". Yes, everyone doing this at the same time would have bad outcomes. The (shared) social utility of nihilism is a kind of "looking in the eyes" of people who are experiencing the absurdity of life, seeing through the words and looking at what is there. The currency of the idea promotes an acceptance of that and therefore I believe that a vigorous society should embrace the experience of nihilism for those people that are ready for it.
qgin 5y ago
It's a tough line to walk. Nihilism might be right, but people who find something to live for seem to have a lot easier time getting out of bed in the morning while they are alive.
warent 5y ago
Always thought Nihilism was about having the power to choose what has meaning, what matters. That "Nothing matters" or "everything is meaningless" is a common misunderstanding / trope.
- greesil 5y ago
  I am not a philosopher. What I know about nihilism comes from watching the Big Lebowski.
  - alamortsubite 5y ago
    That must be exhausting.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    I thought those guys were Nazis?
- akvadrako 5y ago
  I'm not sure about Nihilism, but Nietzsche is certainly often misunderstood in exactly that way.
- gingerrr 5y ago
  "Nothing matters" is a usually cheerful statement coming from a true nihilist, because it's leaving off the implicit "nothing matters [in an objective external sense so meaning is subjectively determined]". They're both halves of the same statement, it's just that edgelords who don't bother to grasp the ethics of nihilism stop understanding at the first 2 words.
mach1ne 5y ago
But we don't even know that will be the end of our universe. Could be something else. Who knows, technology might make us truly immortal, even beyond the bounds of this universe. Point is, absolute certainty in anything, even the end of the universe, is always misguided.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  Are you certain of that?
mlazos 5y ago
Yeah following this to its logical conclusion actually results in a pretty depressing outlook. I used to feel this way when I first graduated college, now I’ve learned that there can definitely be meaning in our experience. Also scientists don’t necessarily agree that heat death is inevitable, there’s still some debate. Basically I’ve become more of an optimist since and it’s made me feel a lot happier in general.

scottLobster 5y ago

The problem with nihilism is, despite being logically coherent, it isn't useful. No society is built on meaninglessness. You have to have faith in something that isn't logically provable to provide base assumptions for whatever your value system is. If Cavemen were nihilists, we'd never have figured out fire.

xyzzy123 5y ago
I think nihilism provides value in the same way that "rock bottom" does for an alcoholic. On a practical basis my life is mostly habit, obligation and pre-framed viewpoints that I accept unreflectively for entirely pragmatic reasons. Which is fine, otherwise you spend a lot of time wondering what a table is, why do anything, etc, but stripping back your beliefs to as close to nothing as you can is an experience worth going through at least once in your life - there's no way to viscerally understand axioms except to think about why they are there, and why they can't be different. Yes, nihilism can prompt personal crisis or even suicide. But the experience is fundamental even if we don't name it, so the idea provides utility to society because it gives us a vocabulary and a framework for processing the experience of rejecting and understanding meaning itself. You can't have true agency without understanding that meaning itself is a construct. A culture which recognises crisis of meaning is a deeper culture than one which perhaps recognises that some situations are "sad" or that sometimes things are tactically difficult ,or that some people might have conflicting interests (looking at you Disney). Personally I think nihilism is a key stage in moral development "for people who think real hard about stuff". Yes, everyone doing this at the same time would have bad outcomes. The (shared) social utility of nihilism is a kind of "looking in the eyes" of people who are experiencing the absurdity of life, seeing through the words and looking at what is there. The currency of the idea promotes an acceptance of that and therefore I believe that a vigorous society should embrace the experience of nihilism for those people that are ready for it.

qgin 5y ago

It's a tough line to walk. Nihilism might be right, but people who find something to live for seem to have a lot easier time getting out of bed in the morning while they are alive.

warent 5y ago

Always thought Nihilism was about having the power to choose what has meaning, what matters. That "Nothing matters" or "everything is meaningless" is a common misunderstanding / trope.

greesil 5y ago
I am not a philosopher. What I know about nihilism comes from watching the Big Lebowski.
- alamortsubite 5y ago
  That must be exhausting.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  I thought those guys were Nazis?
akvadrako 5y ago
I'm not sure about Nihilism, but Nietzsche is certainly often misunderstood in exactly that way.
gingerrr 5y ago
"Nothing matters" is a usually cheerful statement coming from a true nihilist, because it's leaving off the implicit "nothing matters [in an objective external sense so meaning is subjectively determined]". They're both halves of the same statement, it's just that edgelords who don't bother to grasp the ethics of nihilism stop understanding at the first 2 words.

mach1ne 5y ago

But we don't even know that will be the end of our universe. Could be something else. Who knows, technology might make us truly immortal, even beyond the bounds of this universe. Point is, absolute certainty in anything, even the end of the universe, is always misguided.

nate_meurer 5y ago
Are you certain of that?

mlazos 5y ago

Yeah following this to its logical conclusion actually results in a pretty depressing outlook. I used to feel this way when I first graduated college, now I’ve learned that there can definitely be meaning in our experience. Also scientists don’t necessarily agree that heat death is inevitable, there’s still some debate. Basically I’ve become more of an optimist since and it’s made me feel a lot happier in general.