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I think it would be more impressive if investors gave fewer shits about the headline comp packages of a few executives, and instead advocated that Apple pay mor

I think it would be more impressive if investors gave fewer shits about the headline comp packages of a few executives, and instead advocated that Apple pay more attention to how it's no longer creating a place that people want to develop their careers at. Maybe this is just an endemic problem, but it seems to me that big companies have lost the ability/desire to cultivate their own people. Nowadays it's "let people's salaries and career growth stagnate if they choose to stay internal", yet complain when they jump ship to another company that's willing to pay more with a promotion. And at the same time contribute to the problem by being very willing to hire external candidates at salary multiples compared to people from inside, while putting up unreasonable bars for promotion from within. I have yet to see any large company get this formula right. Not to say that I long for the days when you could make a career out of working for GE or something, but you imagine that some respected company (Apple?) could make it so that people wanted to grow and stay with them. Give people responsibility, roles, develop them for a career rather than trying to shortcut it with an external person who looks good but ends up being just talk. Maybe that's impossible nowadays with the pressure to move on to a new product every 3 years.

thatfrenchguy 5y ago
Apple is pretty well known when I look at my friends working there, at least in software and hardware engineering, to have people who have been there for a decade or more?
trhway 5y ago
>Nowadays it's "let people's salaries and career growth stagnate if they choose to stay internal", yet complain when they jump ship to another company that's willing to pay more. And at the same time contribute to the problem by being very willing to hire external candidates at multiples of people from inside, while putting up unreasonable bars for promotion from within. such cross-pollination improves overall state of the industry (in particular it optimizes for efficient use of programmers time - burning that time on low productive unnecessary tasks can be done only by either very rich companies or by companies who hire cheap barrel bottom) and results in development of better technical talent at higher wages. As direct participants and beneficiaries we should celebrate it. Just look at the alternative like say lawyers - you have to suck up to your higher-ups for many years before getting any way ahead.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >Just look at the alternative like say lawyers - you have to suck up to your higher-ups for many years before getting any way ahead. Pretty bad example in my opinion. Top law firms have fixed seniority based compensation. They firms all pay the same and move in lockstep unison. https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/ https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/
HWR_14 5y ago
Investors often have to approve in an up or down vote executive compensation. Certainly that's the case here. Sure, they could also bring up other issues, but there is no "make Apple a good place to grow your career" vote they can participate in.
Grustaf 5y ago
> how it's no longer creating a place that people want to develop their careers at I thought Apple remained one of the most admired companies in the world, to the point where they can pay lower salaries than most competitors and still get the best candidates. When are you saying that this changed?
jonas21 5y ago
I dunno. I've been hearing people make these complaints about Apple for at least 15 years. And in that time, Apple stock has gone up 50x. So it seems to have worked out pretty well for investors.

thatfrenchguy 5y ago

Apple is pretty well known when I look at my friends working there, at least in software and hardware engineering, to have people who have been there for a decade or more?

trhway 5y ago

>Nowadays it's "let people's salaries and career growth stagnate if they choose to stay internal", yet complain when they jump ship to another company that's willing to pay more. And at the same time contribute to the problem by being very willing to hire external candidates at multiples of people from inside, while putting up unreasonable bars for promotion from within. such cross-pollination improves overall state of the industry (in particular it optimizes for efficient use of programmers time - burning that time on low productive unnecessary tasks can be done only by either very rich companies or by companies who hire cheap barrel bottom) and results in development of better technical talent at higher wages. As direct participants and beneficiaries we should celebrate it. Just look at the alternative like say lawyers - you have to suck up to your higher-ups for many years before getting any way ahead.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
>Just look at the alternative like say lawyers - you have to suck up to your higher-ups for many years before getting any way ahead. Pretty bad example in my opinion. Top law firms have fixed seniority based compensation. They firms all pay the same and move in lockstep unison. https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/ https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/

HWR_14 5y ago

Investors often have to approve in an up or down vote executive compensation. Certainly that's the case here. Sure, they could also bring up other issues, but there is no "make Apple a good place to grow your career" vote they can participate in.

Grustaf 5y ago

> how it's no longer creating a place that people want to develop their careers at I thought Apple remained one of the most admired companies in the world, to the point where they can pay lower salaries than most competitors and still get the best candidates. When are you saying that this changed?

jonas21 5y ago

I dunno. I've been hearing people make these complaints about Apple for at least 15 years. And in that time, Apple stock has gone up 50x. So it seems to have worked out pretty well for investors.