4 ms·

Even her latest talk seems a bit off to me. Accusing people of being Anti-Asian or Orientalist is a classic CCP propaganda technique. It is certainly true that

by kurthr 5y ago

Even her latest talk seems a bit off to me. Accusing people of being Anti-Asian or Orientalist is a classic CCP propaganda technique. It is certainly true that the COVID tracking and Social Credit mechanisms are no where near as automated as some would believe (and perhaps fetishize), but it is not true that they somehow don't exist or don't have consequences. I agree, we should not believe outrageous claims of super face recognition (with masks?) or tracking of over 1B people (even with phones), but at the same time, you need to realize that as a foreign citizen your hotel is required to report you to police for each night that you stay, and they will track you down, if they need to, and your host will be held accountable (possibly jailed) for failing to report your location. This is not at all like the rest of Asia (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Signapore etc) and conflating them together is a huge mistake. https://wtop.com/dc/2022/02/chinese-artist-blasts-gw-presidents-apology-over-poster-removal/ https://wtop.com/dc/2022/02/chinese-artist-blasts-gw-preside... For example, it is true that they don't really track individuals for contact tracing by BT without a human in the loop. But it is also true (and reported locally on Wiebo) that individuals based on cell location, who had visited cities (of >1M) were forced to quarantine and unable to return to work, when COVID cases were reported in those cities. It's not magic, it just requires the local administrators and police to send you a message through your WeChat. You had better stay in place. Similarly, SocialCredit is not some magic automated thing, but it is definitely used to punish people by local administrators or national party for (political) crimes, and it can definitely prevent you from buying train or plane tickets or getting a job, passport, university entrance. As usual compliance is _mostly_ based on fear rather than enforcement, and that means that China state news supports such fetishized AI dreams in their reporting. Yes, we need to look at our own issues, but that doesn't mean ignoring (or normalizing) those which exist elsewhere. I suspect that London has about as much effective surveillance as Beijing or Shanghai, but that doesn't mean that they don't often track people (especially foreigners). Are these myths that needed busting? This just feels a bit like a softer whataboutism, and I don't know if she needs to travel to China now, but she would pay a price, if she didn't toe the party line.

qiskit 5y ago
> Accusing people of being Anti-Asian or Orientalist is a classic CCP propaganda technique. Just because it's propaganda doesn't mean it's not true. Sure the chinese are using it for their propaganda. It's not their fault we make it so laughably easy for them. > It is certainly true that the COVID tracking and Social Credit mechanisms are no where near as automated as some would believe (and perhaps fetishize), but it is not true that they somehow don't exist or don't have consequences. There are interviews of chinese people on youtube about the covid tracking and social credit propaganda online. The chinese people laugh at it because the propaganda is so absurd. Here's a clue. If you see propaganda on mainstream media and joe rogan/"alt-right" and they agree, it's most likely absolute absurdity. > you need to realize that as a foreign citizen your hotel is required to report you to police for each night that you stay, and they will track you down, if they need to, and your host will be held accountable (possibly jailed) for failing to report your location. You realize that in europe and most other nations ( including taiwan, singapore, korea, etc ) around the world, hotels take your passport from you right when you check-in. It's good that they track foreigners because you don't belong there. > This is not at all like the rest of Asia (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Signapore etc) and conflating them together is a huge mistake. You sure about that? You do realize that china studied and modeled much of their society off of singapore, japan, korea, etc. I think you are understating how "authoritarian" these countries are. > and it can definitely prevent you from buying train or plane tickets or getting a job, passport, university entrance Every country has had this forever. You do realize that in many countries, if your "social credit" isn't good, you can't buy a house, get a job or even vote. > Yes, we need to look at our own issues, but that doesn't mean ignoring (or normalizing) those which exist elsewhere. Even if those issues don't exist? Even if these "issues" are manufactured to attack a country? It's funny how so many people suddenly care about muslims, chinese, etc all of a sudden. But you really care about the chinese people right?
- kurthr 5y ago
  "But you really care about the chinese people right?" Yes, because I have known some for over 30 of my formative years. It has been New Years so I've spoken to many of them recently. The Chinese people are not their political leaders (any more than Russians, British, or Americans), they are smart, hard working, and kind. Somehow you seem to have conflated the two. The idea that China modeled their society (other than economically) off of their most despised (excluding Singapore) neighbors, is laughable. There are fairly recent wars with each (and I'll include Vietnam in '79).

by kurthr 5y ago

qiskit 5y ago

> Accusing people of being Anti-Asian or Orientalist is a classic CCP propaganda technique. Just because it's propaganda doesn't mean it's not true. Sure the chinese are using it for their propaganda. It's not their fault we make it so laughably easy for them. > It is certainly true that the COVID tracking and Social Credit mechanisms are no where near as automated as some would believe (and perhaps fetishize), but it is not true that they somehow don't exist or don't have consequences. There are interviews of chinese people on youtube about the covid tracking and social credit propaganda online. The chinese people laugh at it because the propaganda is so absurd. Here's a clue. If you see propaganda on mainstream media and joe rogan/"alt-right" and they agree, it's most likely absolute absurdity. > you need to realize that as a foreign citizen your hotel is required to report you to police for each night that you stay, and they will track you down, if they need to, and your host will be held accountable (possibly jailed) for failing to report your location. You realize that in europe and most other nations ( including taiwan, singapore, korea, etc ) around the world, hotels take your passport from you right when you check-in. It's good that they track foreigners because you don't belong there. > This is not at all like the rest of Asia (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Signapore etc) and conflating them together is a huge mistake. You sure about that? You do realize that china studied and modeled much of their society off of singapore, japan, korea, etc. I think you are understating how "authoritarian" these countries are. > and it can definitely prevent you from buying train or plane tickets or getting a job, passport, university entrance Every country has had this forever. You do realize that in many countries, if your "social credit" isn't good, you can't buy a house, get a job or even vote. > Yes, we need to look at our own issues, but that doesn't mean ignoring (or normalizing) those which exist elsewhere. Even if those issues don't exist? Even if these "issues" are manufactured to attack a country? It's funny how so many people suddenly care about muslims, chinese, etc all of a sudden. But you really care about the chinese people right?

kurthr 5y ago
"But you really care about the chinese people right?" Yes, because I have known some for over 30 of my formative years. It has been New Years so I've spoken to many of them recently. The Chinese people are not their political leaders (any more than Russians, British, or Americans), they are smart, hard working, and kind. Somehow you seem to have conflated the two. The idea that China modeled their society (other than economically) off of their most despised (excluding Singapore) neighbors, is laughable. There are fairly recent wars with each (and I'll include Vietnam in '79).