5 ms·

Networks that use my disk to store other people's encrypted blobs (by default) make me uneasy. Services like IPFS where you essentially need to opt in to hostin

Networks that use my disk to store other people's encrypted blobs (by default) make me uneasy. Services like IPFS where you essentially need to opt in to hosting other folks' content feels better.

fsflover 5y ago
Then you might consider I2P network instead, which provides strong anonymity without storing data blobs on your computer, https://geti2p.net https://geti2p.net.
- stavros 5y ago
  How is I2P different from Tor? It doesn't have exit nodes and thus people can't watch you from those? Is it still susceptible to tracking if many nodes are compromised?
  - fsflover 5y ago
    It does have exit nodes, but they are not the point of I2P. In my view, the main advantage is the possibility of peer-to-peer connections like torrents. > Is it still susceptible to tracking if many nodes are compromised? Yes, but AFAIK it's generally harder. See also: https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/tor https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/tor.
    - stavros 5y ago
      Oh thanks! I missed that page.
  - tenebrisalietum 5y ago
    I2P is a self-contained thing - once you are on I2P you can reach others who are also on I2P. Some I2P users run an outproxy, if you use an outproxy for anonymized Internet access, the outproxy has access to your web traffic just like a Tor exit node does. Tor will change circuits and your exit node periodically, if you use an I2P outproxy you'll have that outproxy's IP until you stop using it. Also I2P (at least last I checked it out a few years ago) has a built-in torrent -over-I2P client.
    - stavros 5y ago
      Thank you, I've known of I2P for years but never used it. It's somehow remained constantly there but less popular than e.g. Tor.
- zikduruqe 5y ago
  Check out Yggdrasil too. https://yggdrasil-network.github.io https://yggdrasil-network.github.io
  - yamrzou 5y ago
    Some more overlay networks: Pinecone: https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/06/introducing-the-pinecone-overlay-network https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/06/introducing-the-pinecone-... Katzenpost: https://katzenpost.mixnetworks.org/ https://katzenpost.mixnetworks.org/ Nym Mixnet: https://nymtech.net/docs/stable/overview/nym-other-systems/ https://nymtech.net/docs/stable/overview/nym-other-systems/
raspyberr 5y ago
If they're encrypted blobs, then from your point of view it's just random bits being stored right?
- eloisius 5y ago
  But from law enforcement perspective you may be distributing encrypted bits of CSAM to people that have a private key for it.
  - janto 5y ago
    From my perspective it could be videos of a government committing war crimes, 4chan archives, Twilight fanfic or system logfiles.
- bastawhiz 5y ago
  But they're not random bits. I don't want to host content from random third parties even if I don't know what it is. Especially if I don't know what it is. I wouldn't set up an open FTP server for folks to host random encrypted blobs. Why would I do it for a P2P network?
janto 5y ago
Being blind to what you're hosting is required if you want to be part of a network that values "freedom of information". Partly to avoid the nodes self-censoring and partly as a form of plausible deniability.
- bastawhiz 5y ago
  Freedom of information doesn't imply that you must host content for others, even if there's no way to know what it is. I don't want to host content that I might not otherwise agree to host, therefore I don't care to use such services. "Self censorship" implies that it's right and correct to host anything and everything for everyone no matter what, and I reject that premise: I only want to curate what I redistribute into the world.
  - janto 5y ago
    Well, you can certainly seed only torrents that you think are valuable and are willing to take the risk for. What happens to the content you are not willing to take the personal risk for? That's the utility of networks that value freedom of information, which achieve it by hiding what you share, even from you. Edit: ...and importantly, from whoever can seize your computer.
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      > What happens to the content you are not willing to take the personal risk for? let someone else host it if they think it's valuable otherwise we are dooming the network to host everything forever
      - janto 5y ago
        This is the technical challenge that a network like Freenet attempts to address.

Networks that use my disk to store other people's encrypted blobs (by default) make me uneasy. Services like IPFS where you essentially need to opt in to hosting other folks' content feels better.

fsflover 5y ago

Then you might consider I2P network instead, which provides strong anonymity without storing data blobs on your computer, https://geti2p.net https://geti2p.net.

stavros 5y ago
How is I2P different from Tor? It doesn't have exit nodes and thus people can't watch you from those? Is it still susceptible to tracking if many nodes are compromised?
- fsflover 5y ago
  It does have exit nodes, but they are not the point of I2P. In my view, the main advantage is the possibility of peer-to-peer connections like torrents. > Is it still susceptible to tracking if many nodes are compromised? Yes, but AFAIK it's generally harder. See also: https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/tor https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/tor.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Oh thanks! I missed that page.
- tenebrisalietum 5y ago
  I2P is a self-contained thing - once you are on I2P you can reach others who are also on I2P. Some I2P users run an outproxy, if you use an outproxy for anonymized Internet access, the outproxy has access to your web traffic just like a Tor exit node does. Tor will change circuits and your exit node periodically, if you use an I2P outproxy you'll have that outproxy's IP until you stop using it. Also I2P (at least last I checked it out a few years ago) has a built-in torrent -over-I2P client.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Thank you, I've known of I2P for years but never used it. It's somehow remained constantly there but less popular than e.g. Tor.
zikduruqe 5y ago
Check out Yggdrasil too. https://yggdrasil-network.github.io https://yggdrasil-network.github.io
- yamrzou 5y ago
  Some more overlay networks: Pinecone: https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/06/introducing-the-pinecone-overlay-network https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/06/introducing-the-pinecone-... Katzenpost: https://katzenpost.mixnetworks.org/ https://katzenpost.mixnetworks.org/ Nym Mixnet: https://nymtech.net/docs/stable/overview/nym-other-systems/ https://nymtech.net/docs/stable/overview/nym-other-systems/

raspyberr 5y ago

If they're encrypted blobs, then from your point of view it's just random bits being stored right?

eloisius 5y ago
But from law enforcement perspective you may be distributing encrypted bits of CSAM to people that have a private key for it.
- janto 5y ago
  From my perspective it could be videos of a government committing war crimes, 4chan archives, Twilight fanfic or system logfiles.
bastawhiz 5y ago
But they're not random bits. I don't want to host content from random third parties even if I don't know what it is. Especially if I don't know what it is. I wouldn't set up an open FTP server for folks to host random encrypted blobs. Why would I do it for a P2P network?

janto 5y ago

Being blind to what you're hosting is required if you want to be part of a network that values "freedom of information". Partly to avoid the nodes self-censoring and partly as a form of plausible deniability.

bastawhiz 5y ago
Freedom of information doesn't imply that you must host content for others, even if there's no way to know what it is. I don't want to host content that I might not otherwise agree to host, therefore I don't care to use such services. "Self censorship" implies that it's right and correct to host anything and everything for everyone no matter what, and I reject that premise: I only want to curate what I redistribute into the world.
- janto 5y ago
  Well, you can certainly seed only torrents that you think are valuable and are willing to take the risk for. What happens to the content you are not willing to take the personal risk for? That's the utility of networks that value freedom of information, which achieve it by hiding what you share, even from you. Edit: ...and importantly, from whoever can seize your computer.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    > What happens to the content you are not willing to take the personal risk for? let someone else host it if they think it's valuable otherwise we are dooming the network to host everything forever
    - janto 5y ago
      This is the technical challenge that a network like Freenet attempts to address.