6 ms·

> That is crossing a line. In free societies we shoild be able to hear different sides. RT and Sputnik aren't "sides" in a democratic debate. They are propaga

> That is crossing a line. In free societies we shoild be able to hear different sides. RT and Sputnik aren't "sides" in a democratic debate. They are propaganda outlets participating in bad faith with a goal to undermine those societies that have those debates.

throw3434053 5y ago
You are in for a rude awakening my friend.
screye 5y ago
When all outlets are propaganda outlets, the only way to ensure information from both sides is to let them all scream. I, like most HNers support Ukraine's bid for survival in this war. But, the sheer magnitude and spread of pro-Ukraine and anti-Russia propaganda would even embarrass the director of Rocky 4.
- guiriduro 5y ago
  Yep, I remember a war that was clearly decided in advance but maintained a pretence of negotiability, on a bed of lies and manufactured fear of WMDs, supported in general by a compliant media with plenty of military embeds, glee over "shock and awe" and dropping of a lot more ordinance, and an almost complete absence of reporting of the victims of it. That war was Iraq. Nothing forgives Putin for what he's doing, or the laughable propaganda it rests on and Russian media promulgation of the same, but let's not pretend our media aren't also dancing to a political tune, filtering, ignoring, misrepresenting. And precisely because we claim to live in a free society we should hold our media to higher standards of independence, verifiability and circumspection.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
belter 5y ago
True. But it's not up to Mrs Von der Leyen to decide that, otherwise during the next elections, I will not...oh wait...
- LittleGecko 5y ago
  Last time, when I voted for the 2005 referendum on EU Constitution, I voted yes and it happened. You just vote the wrong way.
  - belter 5y ago
    Which one:-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Dutch_European_Constitution_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Dutch_European_Constituti... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitut...
    - LittleGecko 5y ago
      exactly.
tsol 5y ago
So who decides what a propaganda outlet is? Some was fox news is one. Some say MSNBC is propaganda. And some say all major news channels allow the narrative to be shifted by outside powers, and therefore qualify as propaganda
- drran 5y ago
  Who defends your country?
- rsynnott 5y ago
  Well, Fox and MSNBC aren't owned by a hostile foreign government, so there's that.
  - beeboop 5y ago
    From Russia's perspective they are.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      I don't think anyone in Russia thinks that Fox News or MSNBC are owned by the American government. Like, RT and Sputnik are government-funded foreign propaganda organs; a better comparison might be Radio Free Europe.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > So who decides what a propaganda outlet is? I do. If you find it tough to figure out, consider more context and your place in it. Honestly, one of the things these propaganda outlets are pretty good at is flummoxing people who make judgements based on too little information. Either they get locked up in some "it's all the same, can't decide" trap [1], or they react exclusively to some misleading cherry-picking the outlet put in front of them. [1] e.g. "RT is financed by a government and the BBC is financed by a government, SO THAT MEANS THEY"RE THE SAME AND SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME!1!!"

throw3434053 5y ago

You are in for a rude awakening my friend.

screye 5y ago

When all outlets are propaganda outlets, the only way to ensure information from both sides is to let them all scream. I, like most HNers support Ukraine's bid for survival in this war. But, the sheer magnitude and spread of pro-Ukraine and anti-Russia propaganda would even embarrass the director of Rocky 4.

guiriduro 5y ago
Yep, I remember a war that was clearly decided in advance but maintained a pretence of negotiability, on a bed of lies and manufactured fear of WMDs, supported in general by a compliant media with plenty of military embeds, glee over "shock and awe" and dropping of a lot more ordinance, and an almost complete absence of reporting of the victims of it. That war was Iraq. Nothing forgives Putin for what he's doing, or the laughable propaganda it rests on and Russian media promulgation of the same, but let's not pretend our media aren't also dancing to a political tune, filtering, ignoring, misrepresenting. And precisely because we claim to live in a free society we should hold our media to higher standards of independence, verifiability and circumspection.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

belter 5y ago

True. But it's not up to Mrs Von der Leyen to decide that, otherwise during the next elections, I will not...oh wait...

LittleGecko 5y ago
Last time, when I voted for the 2005 referendum on EU Constitution, I voted yes and it happened. You just vote the wrong way.
- belter 5y ago
  Which one:-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Dutch_European_Constitution_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Dutch_European_Constituti... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitut...
  - LittleGecko 5y ago
    exactly.

tsol 5y ago

So who decides what a propaganda outlet is? Some was fox news is one. Some say MSNBC is propaganda. And some say all major news channels allow the narrative to be shifted by outside powers, and therefore qualify as propaganda

drran 5y ago
Who defends your country?
rsynnott 5y ago
Well, Fox and MSNBC aren't owned by a hostile foreign government, so there's that.
- beeboop 5y ago
  From Russia's perspective they are.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    I don't think anyone in Russia thinks that Fox News or MSNBC are owned by the American government. Like, RT and Sputnik are government-funded foreign propaganda organs; a better comparison might be Radio Free Europe.
tablespoon 5y ago
> So who decides what a propaganda outlet is? I do. If you find it tough to figure out, consider more context and your place in it. Honestly, one of the things these propaganda outlets are pretty good at is flummoxing people who make judgements based on too little information. Either they get locked up in some "it's all the same, can't decide" trap [1], or they react exclusively to some misleading cherry-picking the outlet put in front of them. [1] e.g. "RT is financed by a government and the BBC is financed by a government, SO THAT MEANS THEY"RE THE SAME AND SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME!1!!"