6 ms·

I think your basic premise might not be correct. If you only are getting 4 productive hours of work done per day, then something is wrong. I would say you proba

by issa 5y ago

I think your basic premise might not be correct. If you only are getting 4 productive hours of work done per day, then something is wrong. I would say you probably only get 4 productive hours of WRITING CODE (maybe much less), but during that long lunch break, or bike ride, or whatever, you are probably thinking about the problem (consciously or not). If you work part time on two different projects, you simply won't be as productive, because you won't have that "down time" to think about problems.

Apocryphon 5y ago
The prior mega-thread seemed to indicate the average time spent was around that many hours https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29581125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29581125
prohobo 5y ago
I don't really feel the difference between planning/coding. It's all the same to me in terms of problem solving. Also, I already do this as a consultant, and clients are usually mostly focused on speed and quality. So I give them 4 hours a day, I take a couple hours off then I plug away at my own projects for a few more hours. The context switch plus the long break makes it work for me, but everyone is different. Depending on the project, thinking about solutions during down-time does make sense - but no employer I've ever come across sees it as productive anyway. There's always the silent expectation to look like you're actively working. In any case, I'm often thinking about my work during the day regardless of whether I'm on the clock or not so this is a moot issue for me.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  What amount of time are you billing for, and how do you track it?
  - prohobo 5y ago
    I bill for every hour I spend actively engaging with the work. Usually I max out at about 4 hours, but sometimes go to 8 hours when there are other roles involved (graphics design, devops, meetings, etc.) Tracking depends on the client and project, but usually I input my work on HourStack.
- analog31 5y ago
  >>> Depending on the project, thinking about solutions during down-time does make sense - but no employer I've ever come across sees it as productive anyway. Indeed, if you look at products that are sold for automating the management of skilled workers, such as JIRA and activity tracking, the unstated goal is to eliminate slack. If I can persuade a manager that I need to spend time thinking about solutions, even doing that has to be codified as an entry in a tracking app, with a plan and a deadline. Part time work might end up being the only way to regain that slack, and the cost in compensation might be worth it for a lot of workers. Especially if they can also relocate to a low cost region. Simply due to my age, and where I live, I've dealt with and know a lot of doctors. A large fraction of them have switched to part-time status, or they're professors with limited clinical schedules. I play in a band with a guy who is a retired part-time doctor. He lives in a very modest little house, and has enough wealth to live on.
drewcoo 5y ago
That may be true, but if companies don't pay me for passive "work" I do for them during that downtime, then why worry about its effectiveness?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
anothernewdude 5y ago
My work would have to have much more interesting problems for this to be the case.
TrackerFF 5y ago
I'll throw out a typical day for me, a data analyst: 0800 workday starts 0800-0830 daily standup 0830-0930 check and reply to emails *0930-1100 ACTUAL WORK* 1100-1130 lunch 1130-1200 check and reply to emails 1200-1300 meeting with [some product] team over 1300-1315 coffee break with colleagues *1315-1500 ACTUAL WORK* 1500-1600 Some meeting 1600 workday ends As you can see, that gives me less than 4 hours of "real" work toward the product. Some days there's less meetings, other days there's much more. But in any case, I'd point out meetings as the main culprit. Lots and lots of emails, too. It's pretty much a never-ending stream. But at least with modern meetings over Zoom/Teams/etc., you're more free to do some work in the background. Before COVID, we pretty much had 100% physical meetings. Or remote meetings in conference rooms.
- ec109685 5y ago
  I don’t get how replying to email and attending meetings isn’t real work. If you aren’t adding value to your employer by performing those tasks, ask your manager to abstain.
  - issa 5y ago
    I am jealous of your work experience that you can make this comment. In organizations that run really well, this isn't an issue. But there are a lot of development jobs that involve frequent touch-points with middle managers who don't bring much to the table except for taking time out of developer's days to appear busy. And I say that with no offense intended to any middle managers. Good project managers are worth their weight in gold.
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      It sounds like you just lack context. These people aren’t adding any value to _your_ day but they are adding value to the business. They stay informed on the status of everything going on in their sphere and use that to keep key people informed and spot when things are going wrong.
      - 5y ago
asdff 5y ago
I think another part of it is that rarely are you employed to do one single thing for 8 hours a day. So yes, I do only have 4 productive hours a day for this one project, because I am spending the other hours focused on the other projects and tasks laid in my lap by my employer.

by issa 5y ago

Apocryphon 5y ago

The prior mega-thread seemed to indicate the average time spent was around that many hours https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29581125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29581125

prohobo 5y ago

I don't really feel the difference between planning/coding. It's all the same to me in terms of problem solving. Also, I already do this as a consultant, and clients are usually mostly focused on speed and quality. So I give them 4 hours a day, I take a couple hours off then I plug away at my own projects for a few more hours. The context switch plus the long break makes it work for me, but everyone is different. Depending on the project, thinking about solutions during down-time does make sense - but no employer I've ever come across sees it as productive anyway. There's always the silent expectation to look like you're actively working. In any case, I'm often thinking about my work during the day regardless of whether I'm on the clock or not so this is a moot issue for me.

brailsafe 5y ago
What amount of time are you billing for, and how do you track it?
- prohobo 5y ago
  I bill for every hour I spend actively engaging with the work. Usually I max out at about 4 hours, but sometimes go to 8 hours when there are other roles involved (graphics design, devops, meetings, etc.) Tracking depends on the client and project, but usually I input my work on HourStack.
analog31 5y ago
>>> Depending on the project, thinking about solutions during down-time does make sense - but no employer I've ever come across sees it as productive anyway. Indeed, if you look at products that are sold for automating the management of skilled workers, such as JIRA and activity tracking, the unstated goal is to eliminate slack. If I can persuade a manager that I need to spend time thinking about solutions, even doing that has to be codified as an entry in a tracking app, with a plan and a deadline. Part time work might end up being the only way to regain that slack, and the cost in compensation might be worth it for a lot of workers. Especially if they can also relocate to a low cost region. Simply due to my age, and where I live, I've dealt with and know a lot of doctors. A large fraction of them have switched to part-time status, or they're professors with limited clinical schedules. I play in a band with a guy who is a retired part-time doctor. He lives in a very modest little house, and has enough wealth to live on.

drewcoo 5y ago

That may be true, but if companies don't pay me for passive "work" I do for them during that downtime, then why worry about its effectiveness?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

anothernewdude 5y ago

My work would have to have much more interesting problems for this to be the case.

TrackerFF 5y ago

I'll throw out a typical day for me, a data analyst: 0800 workday starts 0800-0830 daily standup 0830-0930 check and reply to emails *0930-1100 ACTUAL WORK* 1100-1130 lunch 1130-1200 check and reply to emails 1200-1300 meeting with [some product] team over 1300-1315 coffee break with colleagues *1315-1500 ACTUAL WORK* 1500-1600 Some meeting 1600 workday ends As you can see, that gives me less than 4 hours of "real" work toward the product. Some days there's less meetings, other days there's much more. But in any case, I'd point out meetings as the main culprit. Lots and lots of emails, too. It's pretty much a never-ending stream. But at least with modern meetings over Zoom/Teams/etc., you're more free to do some work in the background. Before COVID, we pretty much had 100% physical meetings. Or remote meetings in conference rooms.

ec109685 5y ago
I don’t get how replying to email and attending meetings isn’t real work. If you aren’t adding value to your employer by performing those tasks, ask your manager to abstain.
- issa 5y ago
  I am jealous of your work experience that you can make this comment. In organizations that run really well, this isn't an issue. But there are a lot of development jobs that involve frequent touch-points with middle managers who don't bring much to the table except for taking time out of developer's days to appear busy. And I say that with no offense intended to any middle managers. Good project managers are worth their weight in gold.
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    It sounds like you just lack context. These people aren’t adding any value to _your_ day but they are adding value to the business. They stay informed on the status of everything going on in their sphere and use that to keep key people informed and spot when things are going wrong.
    - 5y ago

asdff 5y ago

I think another part of it is that rarely are you employed to do one single thing for 8 hours a day. So yes, I do only have 4 productive hours a day for this one project, because I am spending the other hours focused on the other projects and tasks laid in my lap by my employer.