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> Some of these conversations, Ben, I just find them delightful. We have these five whale customers that we’ve talked about, these are active conversations. Ac

> Some of these conversations, Ben, I just find them delightful. We have these five whale customers that we’ve talked about, these are active conversations. Active, daily things and in that, the teams are now saying, well, what about the ultra low voltage threshold for the thin pitch library that we’re going to use in this particular cell? “TSMC is giving us these characteristics, you don’t characterize that corner.” Okay, guess what? Go characterize the corner! “Your PDK isn’t as robust as the Samsung or TSMC PDK is to describe the process technology for my team to simulate.” I get where he's going with this but if you're ever on the other side interacting with a vendor you should be very careful about what, if at all you disclose that their competitors are doing. Vendors notice what they learn from your teams and if they know it is leaky they will not disclose things that make the technical side easier. At a past gig we used the be the central point of contact for our vendors because we kept a strict firewall on the technical side between different product lines and SoCs. The first instinct of most engineers when you're trying to evaluate something or get the best performance is to say "X does Y, why don't you do Y" or "X does Y, how can we get similar results" and you've just disclosed something and that vendor will notice. On the flip side if you build up that trust and are known to not disclose you can be read in on things that normally wouldn't be shared. This can be incredibly valuable when you're trying to close on a key technical issue under schedule/time constraints.

adityar 5y ago
I find "X does Y, why don't you?" As a means to keep vendors from becoming complacent. As customers, we don't know what the tools limits are. Sometimes, vendors will not invest in improving their tools/results without a credible threat. The results from competing vendors is the closest you can get to impartial results that create pressure to perform.
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  I think that is a reasonable counter argument to the solid advice GP shared. In my experience, vendors are usually well aware of their competition. It’s a thin and subtle line between motivating them and recklessly sharing details regarding trade secrets, IP, competitive advantages etc. Only mentioning this because I wish someone had clued me in earlier in my career. I only learned after my friend in opsec called me out for my loose lips.
- vvanders 5y ago
  A good chunk of my time was in SoC eval so if the vendor was being complacent they didn't get the bid. You should always be running multiple solutions so you don't get locked in with a certain vendor(and also a really good reason to keep any tech stack you have highly portable). Even then though there's ways to approach it that don't disclose. You can set KPIs that you expect to hit and talk through how they plan too approach it from their side. If something is known in the public you can reference it although I generally prefer not to. Depending on what part of the industry you're in some vendors prefer not to patent and keep approaches internal so discussion of certain aspects can be pretty sensitive.

adityar 5y ago

I find "X does Y, why don't you?" As a means to keep vendors from becoming complacent. As customers, we don't know what the tools limits are. Sometimes, vendors will not invest in improving their tools/results without a credible threat. The results from competing vendors is the closest you can get to impartial results that create pressure to perform.

criticaltinker 5y ago
I think that is a reasonable counter argument to the solid advice GP shared. In my experience, vendors are usually well aware of their competition. It’s a thin and subtle line between motivating them and recklessly sharing details regarding trade secrets, IP, competitive advantages etc. Only mentioning this because I wish someone had clued me in earlier in my career. I only learned after my friend in opsec called me out for my loose lips.
vvanders 5y ago
A good chunk of my time was in SoC eval so if the vendor was being complacent they didn't get the bid. You should always be running multiple solutions so you don't get locked in with a certain vendor(and also a really good reason to keep any tech stack you have highly portable). Even then though there's ways to approach it that don't disclose. You can set KPIs that you expect to hit and talk through how they plan too approach it from their side. If something is known in the public you can reference it although I generally prefer not to. Depending on what part of the industry you're in some vendors prefer not to patent and keep approaches internal so discussion of certain aspects can be pretty sensitive.