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From Tom Ford's five lessons: > You should put on the best version of yourself when you go out in the world because that is a show of respect to the other peop

From Tom Ford's five lessons: > You should put on the best version of yourself when you go out in the world because that is a show of respect to the other people around you. I try to dress well (note that there is a difference between dressing well and dressing formally) because I want to show respect to those around me. I find poorly dressed people almost as off-putting as catching a scent of someone who didn't put deodorant on seeing too much of someone who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt. Again, it's not about level of formality: someone wearing an ill-fitting suit isn't dressed as well as someone wearing properly fitting jeans and a polo. Developers value elegant code as an indication of programming skill, so why not value elegant dress as an indication of interpersonal skills? (The answer is that a lot of developers don't value interpersonal skills at all). "Why This Matters" from Jesse at Put This On is a good read: http://putthison.com/post/665640307/why-this-matters http://putthison.com/post/665640307/why-this-matters

tptacek 15y ago
I find this sentiment mildly offensive, for reasons I'm sure you can predict. I'm wearing a t-shirt covered in paint stains today and ripped up jeans, and I do not agree that I am expressing disrespect for you. I find not agreeing with someone else's sensibilities (in fashion, in art, in cooking, in coding, or what- have- you) to be passive and innocuous. I find "taking disrespect" from someone else's choices to be something other than those things. (It's the sentiment I'm remarking on, not you; I do not find you to be offensive.)
- martingordon 15y ago
  You touch on this, but to be explicit we should note that between respect and disrespect there's indifference. I'm indifferent towards most people. It's when they cross into the "nuisance" range that I take offense. Much the same way I would find it disrespectful if you were talking on your phone too loudly in close quarters or if I overheard you making a racist comment to your friend, I would take offense if you're clothes showed me too much of you or if they gave off some sort of smell. A lack of care of how one's behavior affects those around them is, by definition, disrespectful.
HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt Are you fucking KIDDING me? I'm sitting here wearing a polo shirt, a pretty nice pair of slacks and leather shoes. And yes, a belt. I couldn't imagine being upset because someone showed a bit of belly or lower back because they didn't have a belt on. That's just the height of ... something I can't find a word for! I value elegant dress as an indication that someone wants to look elegant, nothing more, nothing less.
protomyth 15y ago
"someone who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt" I see a lot of fairly well dressed farmers wearing suspenders. Must be an region thing.
- martingordon 15y ago
  You missed the first part of that phrase where I said "seeing too much of someone". If their pants can't stay up far enough to keep from seeing their ass (whether their pants are snug, or they're wearing suspenders or some other means of keeping their pants up), then by most standards it is indecent for them to not wear a belt (or tighter pants, suspenders, etc).
kstenerud 15y ago
Yet another prime example of "Never assume that other people think the same way you do". You may believe that dressing "poorly" implies disrespect for others, but you're in the minority. Being offended over other peoples mode of dress is pretty lame.
- tomkarlo 15y ago
  He might be in the minority here, but he's clearly not in the minority outside of this site. There's a reason why folks still expect certain types of dress for churches, interviews, nice restaurants, etc. When you put on a nice suit to go attend a friend's wedding, you're doing that as much as a sign of respect for him and the other guests as any other reason. The same is true, although perhaps not as dramatically, in every day life. If I'm going out to dinner with my girlfriend, and I dress like crap, yeah, I'd argue that's frankly disrespectful to her. It sends the message that I don't care what she thinks, or I don't think it matters. I'd dress up on a first date when I hardly know her... to not do it now, years later, would send the message that I don't care as much as I did that first day.
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    The parent post explicitly states that he's talking about "dressing well" vs "dressing formally" (weddings, etc). Also, he's not talking about dressing to the appropriate level to the social task at hand; he's talking about dressing to the appropriate level, but "poorly". That's a lot like a gym-goer looking down his nose at anyone whose abs aren't as ripped as his. People as superficial as that don't even get the time of day from me, let alone respect.
    - tomkarlo 15y ago
      He's not saying that anyone has to do what he suggests. He's suggesting that there might be benefits to folks being a little more studied about what they wear and how it fits, and listing a few pointers on how someone who is interested might go about exploring that. He doesn't make any judgement (that I see) about people who choose to ignore his advice. (About the closest he comes is saying that "the days of t-shirts and hoodies are over.) He's not coming to rip off your t-shirt and put a tie around your neck.
ginzasparrow 15y ago
If you're the only coder that doesn't where jeans and a t-shirt, you're the one lacking interpersonal skills, not the rest of us.

tptacek 15y ago

I find this sentiment mildly offensive, for reasons I'm sure you can predict. I'm wearing a t-shirt covered in paint stains today and ripped up jeans, and I do not agree that I am expressing disrespect for you. I find not agreeing with someone else's sensibilities (in fashion, in art, in cooking, in coding, or what- have- you) to be passive and innocuous. I find "taking disrespect" from someone else's choices to be something other than those things. (It's the sentiment I'm remarking on, not you; I do not find you to be offensive.)

martingordon 15y ago
You touch on this, but to be explicit we should note that between respect and disrespect there's indifference. I'm indifferent towards most people. It's when they cross into the "nuisance" range that I take offense. Much the same way I would find it disrespectful if you were talking on your phone too loudly in close quarters or if I overheard you making a racist comment to your friend, I would take offense if you're clothes showed me too much of you or if they gave off some sort of smell. A lack of care of how one's behavior affects those around them is, by definition, disrespectful.

HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago

who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt Are you fucking KIDDING me? I'm sitting here wearing a polo shirt, a pretty nice pair of slacks and leather shoes. And yes, a belt. I couldn't imagine being upset because someone showed a bit of belly or lower back because they didn't have a belt on. That's just the height of ... something I can't find a word for! I value elegant dress as an indication that someone wants to look elegant, nothing more, nothing less.

protomyth 15y ago

"someone who doesn't have the decency to wear a belt" I see a lot of fairly well dressed farmers wearing suspenders. Must be an region thing.

martingordon 15y ago
You missed the first part of that phrase where I said "seeing too much of someone". If their pants can't stay up far enough to keep from seeing their ass (whether their pants are snug, or they're wearing suspenders or some other means of keeping their pants up), then by most standards it is indecent for them to not wear a belt (or tighter pants, suspenders, etc).

kstenerud 15y ago

Yet another prime example of "Never assume that other people think the same way you do". You may believe that dressing "poorly" implies disrespect for others, but you're in the minority. Being offended over other peoples mode of dress is pretty lame.

tomkarlo 15y ago
He might be in the minority here, but he's clearly not in the minority outside of this site. There's a reason why folks still expect certain types of dress for churches, interviews, nice restaurants, etc. When you put on a nice suit to go attend a friend's wedding, you're doing that as much as a sign of respect for him and the other guests as any other reason. The same is true, although perhaps not as dramatically, in every day life. If I'm going out to dinner with my girlfriend, and I dress like crap, yeah, I'd argue that's frankly disrespectful to her. It sends the message that I don't care what she thinks, or I don't think it matters. I'd dress up on a first date when I hardly know her... to not do it now, years later, would send the message that I don't care as much as I did that first day.
- kstenerud 15y ago
  The parent post explicitly states that he's talking about "dressing well" vs "dressing formally" (weddings, etc). Also, he's not talking about dressing to the appropriate level to the social task at hand; he's talking about dressing to the appropriate level, but "poorly". That's a lot like a gym-goer looking down his nose at anyone whose abs aren't as ripped as his. People as superficial as that don't even get the time of day from me, let alone respect.
  - tomkarlo 15y ago
    He's not saying that anyone has to do what he suggests. He's suggesting that there might be benefits to folks being a little more studied about what they wear and how it fits, and listing a few pointers on how someone who is interested might go about exploring that. He doesn't make any judgement (that I see) about people who choose to ignore his advice. (About the closest he comes is saying that "the days of t-shirts and hoodies are over.) He's not coming to rip off your t-shirt and put a tie around your neck.

ginzasparrow 15y ago

If you're the only coder that doesn't where jeans and a t-shirt, you're the one lacking interpersonal skills, not the rest of us.