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People don't want to give up their whole nation and independence, just for some slim chance of getting back at the invading force, by sabotaging their actions i

People don't want to give up their whole nation and independence, just for some slim chance of getting back at the invading force, by sabotaging their actions in a conquered country. Once they allow the Kremlin to take over, they will have a hard time to get rid of them. There will be armed troops in the streets for years. Who doesn't do what they are ordered from Kremlin side will be replaced. "Just another Ukrainian."-style. Meanwhile Russia will have plenty of time to reinforce areas of control inside the conquered country, making it very hard or impossible to retake what was stolen. Ukraine's best chance for any independent future is to deal as much damage to the aggressor as possible. Putin is a complete hypocrite, of course, because if he manages to take the Ukraine, then there will truly be no buffer country between him and NATO. Is he going to go insane again then, claiming, that for example Romania needs to be demilitarized? Then he takes that and claims the same for the next country? When does it stop? If the result is a weakened Russia, then that's good. Empires governed by madmen and dictators should be weakened. We have no use for them in a modern world. In the end Putin will probably manage to reach the exact opposite of what he wants. He wants less threat of NATO, according to his own words, but with this unjustified attack, he has caused NATO partners to move closer together and he has inflicted a cost on his country, which will hopefully be significant enough to stand as a warning for other countries invading their neighbors. China is probably as you say benefitting from all of this. The Chinese government probably is happy right now, that things escalated and that Russia is sanctioned. They can just watch it all play out and act as the "great peaceful bystander" calling for peace, giving themselves a "peace image", all the while they are still putting Uigures into "re-education" camps. It means, that they can dictate trade with Russia more, as Russia has less options. No one wants to buy your gas? Oh how sad! You can sell to us at reduced price! Only on the very surface Russia and China are friendly towards each other. China will take advantage of any economic situation it can take advantage of. There is however not much anyone can do about more trade between those two anyway. In my opinion it is better to do something now than allowing Putin to chip away at Europe. Edit: And yes, I agree, Putin is the kind of dictator, who looks for outside trouble, when things inside are not going well. Typical dictator stuff. Nothing else is to be expected from him.

kkfx 5y ago
Is actual Ukraine in independent nation? Did you try to see actual gov history? Hint: they are actors, their last work was a series about a new Ukrainian government (start from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of_the_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of_the_People the actual real President as the main actor of the fictional president). If they decide to impromptu join Russian Federation say "thanks, you free us from a western-made puppet government" Russians can't remain in arm there, just like they aren't for similar reasons remained in Kz even with the mocked-up CSTO umbrella. Of course their will remain now if a Resistance start to operate, in that very case they have a perfectly licit and justifiable reason to be there: "Russian people, we the government, goes to Ukraine to free the country from the western nazi-armed oppressors (witch is actually a real fact, since both USA and UK do not denied that they have armed and trained Azov battalion and co) and we have to stay because such bad crooks still plague the country bombing, raping and killing people". They can't tell the same if mass of locals citizens welcome them and formally demand to be part of the Federation. In that case the Russian surely keep a bit of grip, but can't really establish a puppet regime with strong military presence. They need to be soft, and being soft the locals do have power to organize slowly and slowly form their own government, a really democratic one, powerless at first but a small growth at a time more influential, enough to rule in a decades. Also think twice and twice again about China profit: so far despite it's enormous growth China can't really overpower USA, yes they can build many more low tech ships, but they can't military confront the USA not on the sea not on abroad lands. With Russian natural resources AND Russian tech they can in few years, and they already need to counter the USA because just to eat they need to be in South America, APAC and Africa, witch means they need to control seas, a thing that USA and UK can't tolerate because it's the sole remaining imperial power they have, a power so far no other nation can menace. For USA keep Europe means remain the tech leader since they can drain EU resources and control it's development, but keeping EU at the price of giving China the Russian Federation means that all needed basis for a III world war are finally made and sealed. Avoid escalation in that case is next to impossible, remember that in both WWI and WWII all nations involved do not, do never wanted a real world war, things just escalate to it. Do you think it's worth risking the end of humanity just for the profit of some cancer of humanity actually ruling on their own people back in all world power, both formal dictatorship like China or formal but not substantial Democracies like Russian and USA, and France and Italy and Germany etc?

kkfx 5y ago

Is actual Ukraine in independent nation? Did you try to see actual gov history? Hint: they are actors, their last work was a series about a new Ukrainian government (start from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of_the_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of_the_People the actual real President as the main actor of the fictional president). If they decide to impromptu join Russian Federation say "thanks, you free us from a western-made puppet government" Russians can't remain in arm there, just like they aren't for similar reasons remained in Kz even with the mocked-up CSTO umbrella. Of course their will remain now if a Resistance start to operate, in that very case they have a perfectly licit and justifiable reason to be there: "Russian people, we the government, goes to Ukraine to free the country from the western nazi-armed oppressors (witch is actually a real fact, since both USA and UK do not denied that they have armed and trained Azov battalion and co) and we have to stay because such bad crooks still plague the country bombing, raping and killing people". They can't tell the same if mass of locals citizens welcome them and formally demand to be part of the Federation. In that case the Russian surely keep a bit of grip, but can't really establish a puppet regime with strong military presence. They need to be soft, and being soft the locals do have power to organize slowly and slowly form their own government, a really democratic one, powerless at first but a small growth at a time more influential, enough to rule in a decades. Also think twice and twice again about China profit: so far despite it's enormous growth China can't really overpower USA, yes they can build many more low tech ships, but they can't military confront the USA not on the sea not on abroad lands. With Russian natural resources AND Russian tech they can in few years, and they already need to counter the USA because just to eat they need to be in South America, APAC and Africa, witch means they need to control seas, a thing that USA and UK can't tolerate because it's the sole remaining imperial power they have, a power so far no other nation can menace. For USA keep Europe means remain the tech leader since they can drain EU resources and control it's development, but keeping EU at the price of giving China the Russian Federation means that all needed basis for a III world war are finally made and sealed. Avoid escalation in that case is next to impossible, remember that in both WWI and WWII all nations involved do not, do never wanted a real world war, things just escalate to it. Do you think it's worth risking the end of humanity just for the profit of some cancer of humanity actually ruling on their own people back in all world power, both formal dictatorship like China or formal but not substantial Democracies like Russian and USA, and France and Italy and Germany etc?