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There isn't much the world can do now. Calling Putin's bluff on invading Ukraine was the biggest mistake the West made. NATO should have seeked to recruit new

There isn't much the world can do now. Calling Putin's bluff on invading Ukraine was the biggest mistake the West made. NATO should have seeked to recruit new member countries from other regions. They forced Putin into action. If you are calling for an assault on Russia in the hopes of making Putin bow out of this war, you would be effectively starting WWIII. Putin has just recently called bluff on readying the nuclear warheads, I don't think any leader wants to antagonize the situation any further. The most reasonable course of action IMO (with the least amount of casualties) is to let Putin have his way for now, and let him deal with the consequences later on.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
> Calling Putin's bluff How did we do that? I think we knew he was serious from the beginning. And we behaved accordingly, though shamefully, in my opinion. We ought to have done "to others what we would have them do to us" (i.e. send aid, supplies, and troops immediately to Ukraine, regardless of the geopolitics involved.)
- freebuju 5y ago
  > send aid, supplies, and troops immediately to Ukraine, regardless of the geopolitics involved. How? When Ukraine's borders are surrounded by Russian armies and Pro-Russian separatists now. If you are talking about having done that pro-actively, then that's a failure on your part. One that may have a profound effect on Ukraine's defense.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Ukraine shares an entire western border with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > When Ukraine's borders are surrounded by Russian armies and Pro-Russian separatists now. This is complete nonsense.
- chalst 5y ago
  NATO have been training Ukrainian troops since at least Euromaidan and the US have provided Ukrain with billions in military aid. Actually sending NATO troops to Ukraine is the kind of obvious provocation that clearly could have sparked a Russian invasion.
greesil 5y ago
Nobody forced Putin to invade. That was Putin's decision. Ukraine joining or not joining NATO is irrelevant, a canard, a red herring, a strawman. The world can do much now. Even from just a humanitarian perspective, accepting refugees, making sure people don't starve (Ukraine, also Afghanistan, and elsewhere).
- pydry 5y ago
  >Ukraine joining or not joining NATO is irrelevant, a canard, a red herring, a strawman. It's the number one reason why this is is happening. Putin said it was a red line on about 75 separate occasions. Ukraine ignored and pushed ahead anyway. NATO ignored and pushed ahead anyway. Two days before the invasion as Putin announced a "semi" pull out of amassed, Zelensky reiterated his commitment to joining NATO. NATO destroyed Libya (now on its second civil war). I doubt they'd leave Russia alone after incorporating Ukraine. It would be irrational to not fear its encroachment.
  - lupire 5y ago
    An excuse is not a defense.
    - pydry 5y ago
      A reason isnt an excuse.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Sovereign means sovereign. What Putin thinks about what Ukraine should or should not do stops at the borders of the Russian Federation. Russia could decide to stop trading with Ukraine, or impose sanctions on Ukraine, or any of a number of other legal options. Instead, they chose to militarily invade a country.
    - pydry 5y ago
      As I recall this was Cuba's argument after the failed bay of pigs invasion. They asked for nuclear weapons on their soil and the USSR agreed to provide them. The US took a dim view of it if I recall correctly. When the defence of the heartland is threatened, notions such as sovereignty tend to take a back seat and invasion is very much on the table. Strategically the Ukrainian border is kind of like Russia's jugular. Hence the insistence that NATO membership is a red line.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
This is not going well for Putin. He was able to set up two puppet breakaway regions in Georgia and then invade while the world did nothing. Now the entire country is a Russian puppet. He tried to call Biden's and the EU's bluff and do it again in Ukraine, thinking his control of natural gas would prevent a unified response, but that hasn't happened, with sanctions continually ratcheting and supplies pouring into Ukraine.
- freebuju 5y ago
  Yeah I don't think the sanctions have moved him one single bit. A lot of EU countries are still dependent on natural gas from Russia, including Germany. I remind you, the war is still days old.
  - samastur 5y ago
    I think it has been clearly stated by several leaders including Biden that nobody expects the sanctions to have an effect soon. You are right though, it's early still and who knows what will happen.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    He didn't think the sanctions would happen, which is why he proceeded as originally planned. They did. The difference this time is that the rest of the world had time to start discussing options because they knew what Putin would try to do. Now he's making little progress with overthrowing the Ukrainian government and suffering economic damage on top. It's only a matter of time.

TimTheTinker 5y ago

> Calling Putin's bluff How did we do that? I think we knew he was serious from the beginning. And we behaved accordingly, though shamefully, in my opinion. We ought to have done "to others what we would have them do to us" (i.e. send aid, supplies, and troops immediately to Ukraine, regardless of the geopolitics involved.)

freebuju 5y ago
> send aid, supplies, and troops immediately to Ukraine, regardless of the geopolitics involved. How? When Ukraine's borders are surrounded by Russian armies and Pro-Russian separatists now. If you are talking about having done that pro-actively, then that's a failure on your part. One that may have a profound effect on Ukraine's defense.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Ukraine shares an entire western border with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > When Ukraine's borders are surrounded by Russian armies and Pro-Russian separatists now. This is complete nonsense.
chalst 5y ago
NATO have been training Ukrainian troops since at least Euromaidan and the US have provided Ukrain with billions in military aid. Actually sending NATO troops to Ukraine is the kind of obvious provocation that clearly could have sparked a Russian invasion.

greesil 5y ago

Nobody forced Putin to invade. That was Putin's decision. Ukraine joining or not joining NATO is irrelevant, a canard, a red herring, a strawman. The world can do much now. Even from just a humanitarian perspective, accepting refugees, making sure people don't starve (Ukraine, also Afghanistan, and elsewhere).

pydry 5y ago
>Ukraine joining or not joining NATO is irrelevant, a canard, a red herring, a strawman. It's the number one reason why this is is happening. Putin said it was a red line on about 75 separate occasions. Ukraine ignored and pushed ahead anyway. NATO ignored and pushed ahead anyway. Two days before the invasion as Putin announced a "semi" pull out of amassed, Zelensky reiterated his commitment to joining NATO. NATO destroyed Libya (now on its second civil war). I doubt they'd leave Russia alone after incorporating Ukraine. It would be irrational to not fear its encroachment.
- lupire 5y ago
  An excuse is not a defense.
  - pydry 5y ago
    A reason isnt an excuse.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Sovereign means sovereign. What Putin thinks about what Ukraine should or should not do stops at the borders of the Russian Federation. Russia could decide to stop trading with Ukraine, or impose sanctions on Ukraine, or any of a number of other legal options. Instead, they chose to militarily invade a country.
  - pydry 5y ago
    As I recall this was Cuba's argument after the failed bay of pigs invasion. They asked for nuclear weapons on their soil and the USSR agreed to provide them. The US took a dim view of it if I recall correctly. When the defence of the heartland is threatened, notions such as sovereignty tend to take a back seat and invasion is very much on the table. Strategically the Ukrainian border is kind of like Russia's jugular. Hence the insistence that NATO membership is a red line.

lern_too_spel 5y ago

This is not going well for Putin. He was able to set up two puppet breakaway regions in Georgia and then invade while the world did nothing. Now the entire country is a Russian puppet. He tried to call Biden's and the EU's bluff and do it again in Ukraine, thinking his control of natural gas would prevent a unified response, but that hasn't happened, with sanctions continually ratcheting and supplies pouring into Ukraine.

freebuju 5y ago
Yeah I don't think the sanctions have moved him one single bit. A lot of EU countries are still dependent on natural gas from Russia, including Germany. I remind you, the war is still days old.
- samastur 5y ago
  I think it has been clearly stated by several leaders including Biden that nobody expects the sanctions to have an effect soon. You are right though, it's early still and who knows what will happen.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  He didn't think the sanctions would happen, which is why he proceeded as originally planned. They did. The difference this time is that the rest of the world had time to start discussing options because they knew what Putin would try to do. Now he's making little progress with overthrowing the Ukrainian government and suffering economic damage on top. It's only a matter of time.