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Do you really need the perspective of a country that started offensive war to overthrow democratically elected government and threatens to use nukes if anyone i

by terafo 5y ago

Do you really need the perspective of a country that started offensive war to overthrow democratically elected government and threatens to use nukes if anyone interferes?

dotancohen 5y ago
Yes, because I am not convinced that the Russian motivation was just "to overthrow democratically elected government". I have seen years of lies about the operations my own country has been involved in, and do not trust "journalists" to not push an agenda. Is there no primary source in which the Russians state their motives? Is it really enough for so many people to just think "Putin bad man" and not consider that his country might have a legitimate reason for invading another state?
- terafo 5y ago
  To be honest, it's really hard to get Putin's perspective. No one knows where he gets his information, even the hardest Russian propaganda wasn't as hard as the claims he made during last week. He claimed that Ukraine is captured by "nazis and junkies", was talking about "genocide of millions of russians on donbass"(donbass is region where russian-based separatists have been fighting ukrainian army for almost a decade), he denied that Ukraine is "real" country. He claims to protect russian-speaking people(which is bullshit, I speak mostly russian, but I'm distinctly ukrainian, there are many people that speak russian and fight Putin in this war, it's not about language). He made many claims and there is more than an hour of his "dedications" in the last week. You might want to listen to them. But no one can really claim to understand him anymore, since all predictions went straight to garbage a week ago. >Is it really enough for so many people to just think "Putin bad man" and not consider that his country might have a legitimate reason for invading another state? He killed, poisoned and jailed opposition for more than 20 years. Now, when he dealt with opposition, he tries to jail everyone who is popular and independent(there were many examples in the recent years). His government is incredibly corrupt and positions are given based on loyalty, not competence. There are many proofs to that. You might want to see some of the Navalny's investigations, that were made before he got poisoned and jailed. It's pretty save to say that Putin is a bad man.
  - terafo 5y ago
    Yeah, I'm biased. I'm hearing an alarm right now and just heard two explosions. But he really threatens to use offensive nukes, I think he is past the point of any empathy.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Yes, I am familiar with Navalny. I'm not sure that one could say "Putin did J bad thing, so he is irrational about K, L, and M". That is the common tactic of character assassination which to me looks like a lack of real arguments about that character's position.

by terafo 5y ago

Do you really need the perspective of a country that started offensive war to overthrow democratically elected government and threatens to use nukes if anyone interferes?

dotancohen 5y ago

Yes, because I am not convinced that the Russian motivation was just "to overthrow democratically elected government". I have seen years of lies about the operations my own country has been involved in, and do not trust "journalists" to not push an agenda. Is there no primary source in which the Russians state their motives? Is it really enough for so many people to just think "Putin bad man" and not consider that his country might have a legitimate reason for invading another state?

terafo 5y ago
To be honest, it's really hard to get Putin's perspective. No one knows where he gets his information, even the hardest Russian propaganda wasn't as hard as the claims he made during last week. He claimed that Ukraine is captured by "nazis and junkies", was talking about "genocide of millions of russians on donbass"(donbass is region where russian-based separatists have been fighting ukrainian army for almost a decade), he denied that Ukraine is "real" country. He claims to protect russian-speaking people(which is bullshit, I speak mostly russian, but I'm distinctly ukrainian, there are many people that speak russian and fight Putin in this war, it's not about language). He made many claims and there is more than an hour of his "dedications" in the last week. You might want to listen to them. But no one can really claim to understand him anymore, since all predictions went straight to garbage a week ago. >Is it really enough for so many people to just think "Putin bad man" and not consider that his country might have a legitimate reason for invading another state? He killed, poisoned and jailed opposition for more than 20 years. Now, when he dealt with opposition, he tries to jail everyone who is popular and independent(there were many examples in the recent years). His government is incredibly corrupt and positions are given based on loyalty, not competence. There are many proofs to that. You might want to see some of the Navalny's investigations, that were made before he got poisoned and jailed. It's pretty save to say that Putin is a bad man.
- terafo 5y ago
  Yeah, I'm biased. I'm hearing an alarm right now and just heard two explosions. But he really threatens to use offensive nukes, I think he is past the point of any empathy.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Yes, I am familiar with Navalny. I'm not sure that one could say "Putin did J bad thing, so he is irrational about K, L, and M". That is the common tactic of character assassination which to me looks like a lack of real arguments about that character's position.