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I hope we keep seeing more of the Russian people waking up to what is going on. It’s hard to know what information gets to them or what the public sentiment in

I hope we keep seeing more of the Russian people waking up to what is going on. It’s hard to know what information gets to them or what the public sentiment in Russia really is.

HarryHirsch 5y ago
Did public opinion ever have any influence on high-level politics? In my corner of the US (more Republican than one might think) majority opinion is that the Ukraine is an intra-European matter that US/NATO would be well advised to stay out of.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Absolutely, many examples of that historically. Revolutions, mass strikes, protests and elections are all ways in which public opinion has had influence on high level politics. > In my corner of the US (more Republican than one might think) majority opinion is that the Ukraine is an intra-European matter that US/NATO would be well advised to stay out of. That's for Putin to decide, like it or not. Just like Hirohito decided to bring the United States into WWII.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    That's for Putin to decide, like it or not. Just like Hirohito decided to bring the United States into WWII. That's what I mean, this kind of decision is made at highest levels of government, and meanwhile the rest of the country is fed propaganda to drag it along. (The conspiratorially-minded amongst us notice the weak state of American defenses at Pearl Harbor in 1941. If the Pacific Fleet had decisively repelled the Japanese attack US isolationism might have continued.)
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      > That's what I mean, this kind of decision is made at highest levels of government, and meanwhile the rest of the country is fed propaganda to drag it along. Propaganda is one thing, the simple facts by themselves sometimes suffice. I'm pretty sure if the true scope of what Germany was up to had been revealed to the United States at an earlier point in time that they would have jumped in unprovoked. > The conspiratorially-minded amongst us notice the weak state of American defenses at Pearl Harbor in 1941. They knew that something was up, but not what was up. > If the Pacific Fleet had decisively repelled the Japanese attack US isolationism might have continued. No, then they would have been at war. That's with acts of war: they change the status from not being at war to being at war, regardless of whether that is then affirmed by a declaration of war. Plenty of historical examples for this. What the response would have been is anybody's guess but it certainly would have moved the US out of the 'neutral' column with respect to the Axis countries.
- tssva 5y ago
  Care to share the polling results and the polling methodology you used to determine the majority opinion in your corner of the US.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    Most of my colleagues at my institution in Western MA are center-right to far right, not what you would call Putinversteher. Enthusiasm for a war with US involvement is completely absent. That's just observations, but at some point anecdotes turn into data.
    - zenexer 5y ago
      A dozen or so miles east of you, I’ve been observing ubiquitous support for Ukraine—but that doesn’t necessarily translate to support for direct engagement with Russia. The people with whom I interact seem to acknowledge that our direct involvement may become necessary, but are concerned about Russia’s reaction if our troops are visibly present in significant numbers.
    - tssva 5y ago
      So a itsy bitsy tiny little corner of the US from which you have extrapolated anecdotal observations into data.

I hope we keep seeing more of the Russian people waking up to what is going on. It’s hard to know what information gets to them or what the public sentiment in Russia really is.

HarryHirsch 5y ago

Did public opinion ever have any influence on high-level politics? In my corner of the US (more Republican than one might think) majority opinion is that the Ukraine is an intra-European matter that US/NATO would be well advised to stay out of.

jacquesm 5y ago
Absolutely, many examples of that historically. Revolutions, mass strikes, protests and elections are all ways in which public opinion has had influence on high level politics. > In my corner of the US (more Republican than one might think) majority opinion is that the Ukraine is an intra-European matter that US/NATO would be well advised to stay out of. That's for Putin to decide, like it or not. Just like Hirohito decided to bring the United States into WWII.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  That's for Putin to decide, like it or not. Just like Hirohito decided to bring the United States into WWII. That's what I mean, this kind of decision is made at highest levels of government, and meanwhile the rest of the country is fed propaganda to drag it along. (The conspiratorially-minded amongst us notice the weak state of American defenses at Pearl Harbor in 1941. If the Pacific Fleet had decisively repelled the Japanese attack US isolationism might have continued.)
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > That's what I mean, this kind of decision is made at highest levels of government, and meanwhile the rest of the country is fed propaganda to drag it along. Propaganda is one thing, the simple facts by themselves sometimes suffice. I'm pretty sure if the true scope of what Germany was up to had been revealed to the United States at an earlier point in time that they would have jumped in unprovoked. > The conspiratorially-minded amongst us notice the weak state of American defenses at Pearl Harbor in 1941. They knew that something was up, but not what was up. > If the Pacific Fleet had decisively repelled the Japanese attack US isolationism might have continued. No, then they would have been at war. That's with acts of war: they change the status from not being at war to being at war, regardless of whether that is then affirmed by a declaration of war. Plenty of historical examples for this. What the response would have been is anybody's guess but it certainly would have moved the US out of the 'neutral' column with respect to the Axis countries.
tssva 5y ago
Care to share the polling results and the polling methodology you used to determine the majority opinion in your corner of the US.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  Most of my colleagues at my institution in Western MA are center-right to far right, not what you would call Putinversteher. Enthusiasm for a war with US involvement is completely absent. That's just observations, but at some point anecdotes turn into data.
  - zenexer 5y ago
    A dozen or so miles east of you, I’ve been observing ubiquitous support for Ukraine—but that doesn’t necessarily translate to support for direct engagement with Russia. The people with whom I interact seem to acknowledge that our direct involvement may become necessary, but are concerned about Russia’s reaction if our troops are visibly present in significant numbers.
  - tssva 5y ago
    So a itsy bitsy tiny little corner of the US from which you have extrapolated anecdotal observations into data.