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Being a Frenchman, I think government could push citizens to act, increasing price of Russian gas through massive taxes or something like that. We only import l

Being a Frenchman, I think government could push citizens to act, increasing price of Russian gas through massive taxes or something like that. We only import like 20% gas from Russia, from what I understand. Impact would be small for us and would prepare us for potentially more severe restrictions in the futures, helping us become more resilient. Am I missing something?

_3u10 5y ago
The best thing to do is lower taxes on gas to account for the inevitable rise in prices. Once swift bans are in place the priority should be to use Russian oil and gas until the taps are turned off for non-payment.
- gbear605 5y ago
  The current SWIFT bans are only aimed at some Russian banks and seem to intentionally let oil and gas continue to flow.
  - _3u10 5y ago
    Yeah I bet everyone else will switch their commerce to those banks that are able to process.
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
> increasing price of Russian gas through massive taxes or something like that Unless you're using a bottled product -- you may be referring to a bottled product -- you can't choose which gas you as a consumer get, can you? Either way, gas and energy are fairly fungible (more fungible than crypto, hah). It's not really possible to target one supply with massive tax like this without having a knock-on effect on the rest of the energy market. To what extent is the rest of the system resilient to a permanent 20% reduction in supply? That Russian gas might be disproportionately used in generating backup electricity.
kkfx 5y ago
So you actually ask to squeeze more money out of your own people? More specifically poor people, since AFAIK they are for biggest domestic gas consumers in France. UAU.... What you propose IMVHO will happen, not by sanction but by scarcity excuses, and not to damage Russia (actually EU push for a partial SWIFT ban, to II level Russian actors, leaving the biggest aside, while buy from Russia surge yesterday and still today) but to keep financing the Green New Deal and cutting the push toward energy giant windfall taxes.
- frenchman99 5y ago
  > So you actually ask to squeeze more money out of your own people? No, we can use less gas and pay the same. People waste plenty of energy in lots of ways.
  - kkfx 5y ago
    Use less and pay the same is an hypocritical and outrageous way to raise prices, like some vendors of fries, sodas and soaps in UK who have recently reduced the quantities of products per package leaving the same price for the consumers. Yes, we waste energy, but raise prices, especially hitting the lowest part of the society is definitively outrageous. Personally seeing the energy price rise I feel a small inflation in what I buy normally and have a confirmation of having made a good investment building a BBC house with a small p.v. BUT for my neighbor that's just means pay much more, not for the environment but for some humans profits. If such raise are ONLY for "natural causes" that's would not be much fun, but still just, who consume more pollute more pay more. However present rises are NOT (at least largely not only) due to natural causes. Gas price and so electricity price in EU does not skyrocket because of the Russian but because EU Commission choose deliberately to negotiate them with monthly based future instead of long term contracts (look for Dutch TTF). The VERY SAME thing that happen in KZ: https://www.energyintel.com/download?issueId=0000017e-2c65-de9c-afff-2df7d1230001 https://www.energyintel.com/download?issueId=0000017e-2c65-d... and who profit is very clear: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/North-Sea-Oil-Operators-Set-For-Near-Record-Cash-Flows.html https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/North-Sea-Oil-Operator... and https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/energy-price-crisis-tory-britain-ed-miliband https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/energy... also is clearly stated that such move is done to "rebalancing energy prices" (p. 148) https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1033990/net-zero-strategy-beis.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... for the Green New Deal purpose and NOT to make a Green New Deal "possible" but to make their private-public actors super-earn a very big amount of money. Normally that's have a name: embezzlement.

_3u10 5y ago

The best thing to do is lower taxes on gas to account for the inevitable rise in prices. Once swift bans are in place the priority should be to use Russian oil and gas until the taps are turned off for non-payment.

gbear605 5y ago
The current SWIFT bans are only aimed at some Russian banks and seem to intentionally let oil and gas continue to flow.
- _3u10 5y ago
  Yeah I bet everyone else will switch their commerce to those banks that are able to process.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

> increasing price of Russian gas through massive taxes or something like that Unless you're using a bottled product -- you may be referring to a bottled product -- you can't choose which gas you as a consumer get, can you? Either way, gas and energy are fairly fungible (more fungible than crypto, hah). It's not really possible to target one supply with massive tax like this without having a knock-on effect on the rest of the energy market. To what extent is the rest of the system resilient to a permanent 20% reduction in supply? That Russian gas might be disproportionately used in generating backup electricity.

kkfx 5y ago

So you actually ask to squeeze more money out of your own people? More specifically poor people, since AFAIK they are for biggest domestic gas consumers in France. UAU.... What you propose IMVHO will happen, not by sanction but by scarcity excuses, and not to damage Russia (actually EU push for a partial SWIFT ban, to II level Russian actors, leaving the biggest aside, while buy from Russia surge yesterday and still today) but to keep financing the Green New Deal and cutting the push toward energy giant windfall taxes.

frenchman99 5y ago
> So you actually ask to squeeze more money out of your own people? No, we can use less gas and pay the same. People waste plenty of energy in lots of ways.
- kkfx 5y ago
  Use less and pay the same is an hypocritical and outrageous way to raise prices, like some vendors of fries, sodas and soaps in UK who have recently reduced the quantities of products per package leaving the same price for the consumers. Yes, we waste energy, but raise prices, especially hitting the lowest part of the society is definitively outrageous. Personally seeing the energy price rise I feel a small inflation in what I buy normally and have a confirmation of having made a good investment building a BBC house with a small p.v. BUT for my neighbor that's just means pay much more, not for the environment but for some humans profits. If such raise are ONLY for "natural causes" that's would not be much fun, but still just, who consume more pollute more pay more. However present rises are NOT (at least largely not only) due to natural causes. Gas price and so electricity price in EU does not skyrocket because of the Russian but because EU Commission choose deliberately to negotiate them with monthly based future instead of long term contracts (look for Dutch TTF). The VERY SAME thing that happen in KZ: https://www.energyintel.com/download?issueId=0000017e-2c65-de9c-afff-2df7d1230001 https://www.energyintel.com/download?issueId=0000017e-2c65-d... and who profit is very clear: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/North-Sea-Oil-Operators-Set-For-Near-Record-Cash-Flows.html https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/North-Sea-Oil-Operator... and https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/energy-price-crisis-tory-britain-ed-miliband https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/energy... also is clearly stated that such move is done to "rebalancing energy prices" (p. 148) https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1033990/net-zero-strategy-beis.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... for the Green New Deal purpose and NOT to make a Green New Deal "possible" but to make their private-public actors super-earn a very big amount of money. Normally that's have a name: embezzlement.