5 ms·

There is a signalling mechanism involved in dressing like a slob, every bit as loud as the signal you are trying to send out by dressing well. In some contexts

by steverb 15y ago

There is a signalling mechanism involved in dressing like a slob, every bit as loud as the signal you are trying to send out by dressing well. In some contexts, putting on "whatever" sends the signal that I'm a slob, in other contexts it sends the signal that I have better / more important things to think about. In some contexts, dressing well sends out the signal that you are conscientious and trust-worthy, in other contexts it sends the signal that you are a vapid tool. Your job is to tailor your message for the audience you are trying to reach.

randomdata 15y ago
I actually enjoy fashion and try to dress well when the time is right, but coming from a farming background, you dress like a slob because you're going to come home covered in dirt, grease and who knows what else. As such, dressing up for work, even if it is in an office, seems pretty silly to me. Work is about getting stuff done, not looking pretty. Save the dress up for social occasions outside of the workplace.
- cschneid 15y ago
  Clothing is a symbol, and shortcut. A guy in a nicely tailored suit in the business meeting shows that they care about details, are successful enough already to have the suit, etc, etc. Shortcuts are important to social interactions, and outside physical labor, much of work is social interactions. (yes, even in software).
  - protomyth 15y ago
    I agree, clothing is a symbol. Make sure the symbol you want to project is the one the people you are dealing with will take away is the same. A guy is a nicely tailored suit might be assumed to be just another hustler in a long line of hustlers to some people.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- jleader 15y ago
  My father liked to remind me that neckties, jewelery, and any sort of loose or dangling clothing are very bad ideas around rotating machinery!
jseliger 15y ago
Also, I noticed this: (For guys) Girls like guys in ties. Show me a young woman who doesn’t like a well-dress guy and I will show you a liar. This doesn’t mean putting on a suit every time you step out of your apartment, but just putting on clothes that make you look good. For long-term relationships, men are just as picky as women. Many men probably don't want to date the kind of woman who will be impressed by wearing a long string of cloth that symbolically represents the cutting off of bloodflow to the brain. Rather, men want to signal to women that they're looking for someone who will look beyond the surface appearance of fancy clothes and towards something more substantial. Show me a young woman who finds the wearing of a tie the marginal tipping point at which she'll sleep with a guy in a tie and I'll show you a young woman who probably makes me think, "I can do better over the long term." And, even over the short term, I'm not convinced the tie is all that important.
- john_b 15y ago
  I think you've completely missed the point. Pick any girl you like and show her some pictures of well dressed men wearing ties and then ask her if she thought about the level of blood flowing to their brains. She might think about other things, but that won't be one of them. Clothes, by nature, are superficial. Trying to signal the deeper aspects of your character by your clothing is like trying to signal your literary tastes by the type of car you buy. That is not how it works. The problem is that a lot of introverted and geeky types automatically associate the word "superficial" with (and only with) negatives. nhashem's post about the "clueless douchebag" is a good example. But the Venn diagram of people who wear suits and people who are superficial douchebags does not have nearly as much overlap as a lot of technically-minded people think it does. Clothing simply doesn't tell you a lot about a person's character. However, a well dressed man or woman does signal that they are at least (1) able to afford nice clothing, (2) aware enough of their social environment to know that wearing such clothing leaves a positive impression on most people, (3) actually care about the impression they give others (which is not vain, but practical--the extreme opposite of this, not caring at all what others think about you--is not far from hubris) and (4) capable of taking care of themselves (getting rid of neckbeards doesn't hurt either). For better or worse, people HAVE to judge you by what they first see: the superficial. You can't signal depth of personality by wearing or choosing not to wear a tie. It's really not that difficult to dress well for special occasions or professional events. By dressing well you de-obligate others (fellow casual-dressing geeks excepted) to not immediately judge you when they see you. That gives you the opportunity to show them your personality and character when you actually get to speak to them. Words convey thoughts better than clothes. Clothing is just a daily-revised resume: it helps you get to that point.
hga 15y ago
Exactly. I once worded at a document imaging "VAR" (except that we added serious value) where my programming was behind half our sales and enabled another large fraction. But I also had an informal role in sales. Our VP of sales, very much a "suit" (but by no means technically illiterate) was also our "closer", i.e. he was very good at getting sales closed, whoever was the lead salesman. Every once in a while he'd take me to a meeting at a customer's site, me wearing my normal Oxford shirt, black jeans (not ratty) and gray New Balance 90x running shoes. And I would talk with all the people the customer brought to the meeting, suits and geeks, and convince them that, yes, we can do this. Now, I'm pretty sure what I said was the most important part of that ^_^, but we were very cognizant that by not wearing a suit or even a tie I was signaling "geek cred" or whatever you want to call it. And it worked beautifully. (Well, being an introvert I wasn't good for anything the next day, but that's a small price to pay for a mid to high six figure sale.) Come to think of it, I can see another non-dress signal that this sent. In talking to the customer, I would take ownership of some or all of what we were selling to them (the stuff I'd program or sometimes build (I like to build computers occasionally)) and I'll tell them who had ownership of the other stuff and implicitly that they could do it. I also signaled that I was pledging to deliver to them the whole thing, whomever did what. This also had a good backend/after the sale function: our salesmen never sold something we "geeks" didn't think we could deliver (and we were experienced enough not to get into trouble unless some third party software we hadn't had experience with yet failed on us).

by steverb 15y ago

randomdata 15y ago

I actually enjoy fashion and try to dress well when the time is right, but coming from a farming background, you dress like a slob because you're going to come home covered in dirt, grease and who knows what else. As such, dressing up for work, even if it is in an office, seems pretty silly to me. Work is about getting stuff done, not looking pretty. Save the dress up for social occasions outside of the workplace.

cschneid 15y ago
Clothing is a symbol, and shortcut. A guy in a nicely tailored suit in the business meeting shows that they care about details, are successful enough already to have the suit, etc, etc. Shortcuts are important to social interactions, and outside physical labor, much of work is social interactions. (yes, even in software).
- protomyth 15y ago
  I agree, clothing is a symbol. Make sure the symbol you want to project is the one the people you are dealing with will take away is the same. A guy is a nicely tailored suit might be assumed to be just another hustler in a long line of hustlers to some people.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
jleader 15y ago
My father liked to remind me that neckties, jewelery, and any sort of loose or dangling clothing are very bad ideas around rotating machinery!

jseliger 15y ago

Also, I noticed this: (For guys) Girls like guys in ties. Show me a young woman who doesn’t like a well-dress guy and I will show you a liar. This doesn’t mean putting on a suit every time you step out of your apartment, but just putting on clothes that make you look good. For long-term relationships, men are just as picky as women. Many men probably don't want to date the kind of woman who will be impressed by wearing a long string of cloth that symbolically represents the cutting off of bloodflow to the brain. Rather, men want to signal to women that they're looking for someone who will look beyond the surface appearance of fancy clothes and towards something more substantial. Show me a young woman who finds the wearing of a tie the marginal tipping point at which she'll sleep with a guy in a tie and I'll show you a young woman who probably makes me think, "I can do better over the long term." And, even over the short term, I'm not convinced the tie is all that important.

john_b 15y ago
I think you've completely missed the point. Pick any girl you like and show her some pictures of well dressed men wearing ties and then ask her if she thought about the level of blood flowing to their brains. She might think about other things, but that won't be one of them. Clothes, by nature, are superficial. Trying to signal the deeper aspects of your character by your clothing is like trying to signal your literary tastes by the type of car you buy. That is not how it works. The problem is that a lot of introverted and geeky types automatically associate the word "superficial" with (and only with) negatives. nhashem's post about the "clueless douchebag" is a good example. But the Venn diagram of people who wear suits and people who are superficial douchebags does not have nearly as much overlap as a lot of technically-minded people think it does. Clothing simply doesn't tell you a lot about a person's character. However, a well dressed man or woman does signal that they are at least (1) able to afford nice clothing, (2) aware enough of their social environment to know that wearing such clothing leaves a positive impression on most people, (3) actually care about the impression they give others (which is not vain, but practical--the extreme opposite of this, not caring at all what others think about you--is not far from hubris) and (4) capable of taking care of themselves (getting rid of neckbeards doesn't hurt either). For better or worse, people HAVE to judge you by what they first see: the superficial. You can't signal depth of personality by wearing or choosing not to wear a tie. It's really not that difficult to dress well for special occasions or professional events. By dressing well you de-obligate others (fellow casual-dressing geeks excepted) to not immediately judge you when they see you. That gives you the opportunity to show them your personality and character when you actually get to speak to them. Words convey thoughts better than clothes. Clothing is just a daily-revised resume: it helps you get to that point.

hga 15y ago

Exactly. I once worded at a document imaging "VAR" (except that we added serious value) where my programming was behind half our sales and enabled another large fraction. But I also had an informal role in sales. Our VP of sales, very much a "suit" (but by no means technically illiterate) was also our "closer", i.e. he was very good at getting sales closed, whoever was the lead salesman. Every once in a while he'd take me to a meeting at a customer's site, me wearing my normal Oxford shirt, black jeans (not ratty) and gray New Balance 90x running shoes. And I would talk with all the people the customer brought to the meeting, suits and geeks, and convince them that, yes, we can do this. Now, I'm pretty sure what I said was the most important part of that ^_^, but we were very cognizant that by not wearing a suit or even a tie I was signaling "geek cred" or whatever you want to call it. And it worked beautifully. (Well, being an introvert I wasn't good for anything the next day, but that's a small price to pay for a mid to high six figure sale.) Come to think of it, I can see another non-dress signal that this sent. In talking to the customer, I would take ownership of some or all of what we were selling to them (the stuff I'd program or sometimes build (I like to build computers occasionally)) and I'll tell them who had ownership of the other stuff and implicitly that they could do it. I also signaled that I was pledging to deliver to them the whole thing, whomever did what. This also had a good backend/after the sale function: our salesmen never sold something we "geeks" didn't think we could deliver (and we were experienced enough not to get into trouble unless some third party software we hadn't had experience with yet failed on us).