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This. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Most europeans are aware of germany’s involuntary aid for russia but cant do much since germany dominates eu po

This. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Most europeans are aware of germany’s involuntary aid for russia but cant do much since germany dominates eu politics. There is a near conspiracy theory amount of decisions that Merkel took and played right into putin’s favour. Also worth noting the german ceo of north stream is a former stasi officer, the east german communist secret police - a russian tool. These are many of the reasons why i am against a european army. It will likely be dominated by germany, and regardless of how much germans will try and pr their country’s image, germany has made colossal mistakes.

turbinerneiter 5y ago
The reason I don't want a European army is that I don't really see Germany def ending a couple of countries that hate it. Germany demilitarized after WW2 and decided to use diplomacy and economic integration to ensure peace, instead of war. And they tried to play nice with Russia, after they killed 27 million Russians in WW2. Now everyone is acting like Putin going mad is Germany's fault. Now everybody wants Germany to be a military power again. The last two times they were, the world burned. And yes, the German approach to reign in Russia failed. But so did the US approach of treating Russia as an enemy forever.
- yrgulation 5y ago
  I am curious - what countries hate germany? And what country wouldnt want to defend germany in case of an attack? Edit: i dont think projecting this back on the us is the right approach. The us showed its not ready to appease a country that sponsored dictators, assassinated journalists and enslaved its own citizens. I see a few germans here and there feeling guilt for what germany did to russia, but what about what germany did to east europe? It invaded those countries making them weaker for russia to take. East europe forgave german war reparation debts and now germany is barely doing anything. Where it the guilt for that?
  - orbifold 5y ago
    During Cold War France considered using tactical nuclear warheads to make Germany impassible to a Russian advance, that was one reason they refused to put their nukes under NATO control (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/terrifying-why-france-once-pointed-its-nuclear-weapons-germany-164028 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/terrifying-why-fran...)
  - thg 5y ago
    Poland comes to mind.. Don't know about the population, but their current government really does not like us. Although they're geographically between Russia and us, so there's that.
    - yrgulation 5y ago
      100% poland would step in for germany. Matter of fact east eu memeber states account for 15% of german exports and they never voiced the idea of sanctions against germany in their disagreements. Anyway we can keep disagreeing all day about this. There is absolutely no hate towards germans or germany, i am not sure where this comes from. I imagine east europeans can also claim germans hate them for calling them cheap labour and the south europeans for calling them lazy and it would lead nowhere and so on. Germany is part and parcel of a free european history and germans are loved. End of story.
      - turbinerneiter 5y ago
        You can't just say Germans are loved end of story. Doesn't make it true. Greeks called Merkel Hitler because of helping them with their debt. Poland and Hungary is raging against Germany because of them helping refugees since about 5 years now. Whenever there is any kind of disagreement, Poland brings up WW2 reparations. Whenever a German voices concern about how their EU tax money is embezzled I Hungary, they are called arrogant.
        yrgulation 5y ago
        Dont we all love free political discourse? Calling each other names doesnt equal to hatred. Thats how europeans do. We love throwing insults at each other. Dont tell me there are no germans calling greeks lazy yet they bear the burden of their own mistakes? I think its a bit hypocritical to claim germany is a victim. Arent germans all too happy to welcome refugees against eu member state concerns yet when east europeans travel to germany for work they are looked down upon? Aren’t germans all too happy to point out how lame all of these other eu countries are when they make mistakes? We can spin in circles all day long and the only conclusion i can draw is that europeans replaced wars with insults and thats ok. I prefer this over invasions.
- lvl100 5y ago
  This is my argument too. History teaches us it’s never the people. It’s that one bad apple. Solution is simple: force Russia to demilitarize. Put sanctions on them until they do.

turbinerneiter 5y ago

The reason I don't want a European army is that I don't really see Germany def ending a couple of countries that hate it. Germany demilitarized after WW2 and decided to use diplomacy and economic integration to ensure peace, instead of war. And they tried to play nice with Russia, after they killed 27 million Russians in WW2. Now everyone is acting like Putin going mad is Germany's fault. Now everybody wants Germany to be a military power again. The last two times they were, the world burned. And yes, the German approach to reign in Russia failed. But so did the US approach of treating Russia as an enemy forever.

yrgulation 5y ago
I am curious - what countries hate germany? And what country wouldnt want to defend germany in case of an attack? Edit: i dont think projecting this back on the us is the right approach. The us showed its not ready to appease a country that sponsored dictators, assassinated journalists and enslaved its own citizens. I see a few germans here and there feeling guilt for what germany did to russia, but what about what germany did to east europe? It invaded those countries making them weaker for russia to take. East europe forgave german war reparation debts and now germany is barely doing anything. Where it the guilt for that?
- orbifold 5y ago
  During Cold War France considered using tactical nuclear warheads to make Germany impassible to a Russian advance, that was one reason they refused to put their nukes under NATO control (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/terrifying-why-france-once-pointed-its-nuclear-weapons-germany-164028 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/terrifying-why-fran...)
- thg 5y ago
  Poland comes to mind.. Don't know about the population, but their current government really does not like us. Although they're geographically between Russia and us, so there's that.
  - yrgulation 5y ago
    100% poland would step in for germany. Matter of fact east eu memeber states account for 15% of german exports and they never voiced the idea of sanctions against germany in their disagreements. Anyway we can keep disagreeing all day about this. There is absolutely no hate towards germans or germany, i am not sure where this comes from. I imagine east europeans can also claim germans hate them for calling them cheap labour and the south europeans for calling them lazy and it would lead nowhere and so on. Germany is part and parcel of a free european history and germans are loved. End of story.
    - turbinerneiter 5y ago
      You can't just say Germans are loved end of story. Doesn't make it true. Greeks called Merkel Hitler because of helping them with their debt. Poland and Hungary is raging against Germany because of them helping refugees since about 5 years now. Whenever there is any kind of disagreement, Poland brings up WW2 reparations. Whenever a German voices concern about how their EU tax money is embezzled I Hungary, they are called arrogant.
      - yrgulation 5y ago
        Dont we all love free political discourse? Calling each other names doesnt equal to hatred. Thats how europeans do. We love throwing insults at each other. Dont tell me there are no germans calling greeks lazy yet they bear the burden of their own mistakes? I think its a bit hypocritical to claim germany is a victim. Arent germans all too happy to welcome refugees against eu member state concerns yet when east europeans travel to germany for work they are looked down upon? Aren’t germans all too happy to point out how lame all of these other eu countries are when they make mistakes? We can spin in circles all day long and the only conclusion i can draw is that europeans replaced wars with insults and thats ok. I prefer this over invasions.
lvl100 5y ago
This is my argument too. History teaches us it’s never the people. It’s that one bad apple. Solution is simple: force Russia to demilitarize. Put sanctions on them until they do.