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Not a perfect heuristic but generally speaking I don't find the neo-Nazi narrative to fit with the fact that the President is Jewish and vigorously opposes this

Not a perfect heuristic but generally speaking I don't find the neo-Nazi narrative to fit with the fact that the President is Jewish and vigorously opposes this "special operation." There is a unit with a large number of soldiers that like to use Norse pagan imagery. Some neo-Nazis also use Norse pagan imagery. So... it isn't impossible that there are some. However, a kernel of truth in a lie doesn't mean the whole thing is true; on the contrary, that's what makes a good lie.

xupybd 5y ago
That's pretty solid generally being Jewish does disqualify someone from being involved in anything Nazi related. I really know very little about Ukraine and it's politics. I have no idea who their president is. I also strongly agree with your grain of truth making a good lie argument.
ailef 5y ago
> it isn't impossible that there are some Actually, it's pretty evident that there are many. They surely still are a minority across the whole population, but they are definitely a strong one at that. The unit you're referring too is the Azov battalion. It's a paramilitary unit that has been condemned for ISIS-like war crimes, mostly against the people in Donbas. This unit has been legitimized and fully integrated into the Ukrainian army. Its leader has strong ties to Ukraine Ministry of the Interior. Also worrying is that on Jan 1 every year there are very popular marches (10-20k people in Kiev) in honor of Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator and "national hero" in Ukraine. Bandera and other Nazi collaborators that participated in the murder of around 100k (!!!) Poles, are now glorified thanks to a 2015 law which imposes criminal sanctions (I believe 5 to 10 years) to anyone who insults their name. I'm on mobile and cannot provide sources right now, but I believe this is pretty uncontroversial stuff which you can corroborate with a little bit of digging.

xupybd 5y ago

That's pretty solid generally being Jewish does disqualify someone from being involved in anything Nazi related. I really know very little about Ukraine and it's politics. I have no idea who their president is. I also strongly agree with your grain of truth making a good lie argument.

ailef 5y ago

> it isn't impossible that there are some Actually, it's pretty evident that there are many. They surely still are a minority across the whole population, but they are definitely a strong one at that. The unit you're referring too is the Azov battalion. It's a paramilitary unit that has been condemned for ISIS-like war crimes, mostly against the people in Donbas. This unit has been legitimized and fully integrated into the Ukrainian army. Its leader has strong ties to Ukraine Ministry of the Interior. Also worrying is that on Jan 1 every year there are very popular marches (10-20k people in Kiev) in honor of Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator and "national hero" in Ukraine. Bandera and other Nazi collaborators that participated in the murder of around 100k (!!!) Poles, are now glorified thanks to a 2015 law which imposes criminal sanctions (I believe 5 to 10 years) to anyone who insults their name. I'm on mobile and cannot provide sources right now, but I believe this is pretty uncontroversial stuff which you can corroborate with a little bit of digging.