3 ms·

Look at the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars and euros that are pouring into weapons. Germany just approved 100 billion (!!!!) military budget for this year. J

Look at the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars and euros that are pouring into weapons. Germany just approved 100 billion (!!!!) military budget for this year. JUST IMAGINE what would have happened if the west would have supported the ez Soviet Republics after 1991. Great western foreign politics at work. FUCK WAR. Fuck propaganda. Fuck the double standards that we Europeans have, applauding drone bombings and American invasions, but bringing a country of 150 million people to fall now. Double standard bs. I don't want that.

koonsolo 5y ago
> JUST IMAGINE what would have happened if the west would have supported the ez Soviet Republics after 1991. Just IMAGINE if Russia would have invested less GDP % in military and used it for their own infrastructure and people. Imagine having oligarchs share a tiny part of their wealth to improve the lives of everybody.
elric 5y ago
What are you on about? There is very little support in Europe for American drone strikes, or indeed for many other American "interventions". Fuck propaganda? Sure. On all sides of the spectrum. This game of finger pointing is pointless.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >There is very little support in Europe for American drone strikes There's enough support that a drone strike can wipe out a family and the military can determine "no wrongdoing". https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/air-force-watchdog-finds-no-wrongdoing-in-afghan-drone-strike/ https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/air-force-watchdog-finds-no-wr... I think this is what people talk about when they refer to the hypocrisy.
  - elric 5y ago
    This is an article by an American newspaper reporting on an American investigation of an American attack. How exactly does this pertain to European support?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >Fuck propaganda? This war is going to be an amazing study in the importance of information warfare. The propaganda machine is running in full force from everyone.
  - spacemanmatt 5y ago
    Fuck propaganda. We only study it because we have to.
benque 5y ago
Okay, what's your plan? You want Germany to roll over when Putin attacks? Germany should double that military budget :)
- markvdb 5y ago
  - German government defense spending for 2021: 46.8 * 10^9€ [0] - German government defense spending for 2022: >=100 * 10^9€ [1] quote from [1]: "Scholz said that the German government would allocate €100 billion earmarked for the German armed forces, the Bundeswehr, in the 2022 budget. "From "From now on, more than 2% of our GDP will be invested in our defense," Scholz said. Germany has previously been criticized for devoting less than the 2% mark on defense spending called for by NATO membership rules. The €100 billion will be allocated into a "special fund" for the German armed forces." [0] https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/cabinet-budget-2021-1790544 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/cabinet-budget-2... [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reversal-on-ukraine-weapons-policy-response-to-putins-aggression/a-60932652 https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reversal-on-ukraine-weapons-p...
koonsolo 5y ago
You mean it would be a great idea for Europe to give Putin more money? Nice strategy! It seems that it was a mistake from EU to be so dependent on Russian gas, and funded their army that is now attacking us.
southerntofu 5y ago
> Look at the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars and euros that are pouring into weapons. It's a trend, especially since 2001 and especially since the past decade, that all major countries around the planet are reinforcing their border and military, reinstating various forms of military service, outlawing criticism of the Nation State, appropriating or otherwise securing crucial/strategic resources in former/current colonies... I agree with you it's disastrous. And i'm all in favor of dismantling military institutions worldwide without waiting, but it's hardly a european problem. Fascism is on the rise on every continent (Brasil, France, India, Japan, Russia, China) so framing the problem as a european problem is not helping. Although of course it's important to point out the ethnocentrism at the heart of european discourse: https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/72c71a0e-04f6-4337-b9ff-261d8d9f8bb5.png https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/72c71a0e-04f6-4337-b9ff-261d8d... What can help is reviving the internationalist/pacifist movement. A few decades ago when i was a kid we had millions of people marching down the streets against the cold war and against all forms of colonialism, and i do mean against both sides of the conflict (third-worldism). Popular solidarity goes beyond borders as long as we don't let nationalism and its arbitrary borders taint our hearts. And please note that i don't mean "peaceful" when i say pacifism: i'm all for blowing up military installations and Nation States, and reaching world peace and social justice "by any means necessary". We need to dismiss propaganda from corrupt western "democracies" as well as modern autocracies. But that does not mean we shouldn't condemn a neo-fascist State (Russia) for invading its former colony (Ukraine).

koonsolo 5y ago

> JUST IMAGINE what would have happened if the west would have supported the ez Soviet Republics after 1991. Just IMAGINE if Russia would have invested less GDP % in military and used it for their own infrastructure and people. Imagine having oligarchs share a tiny part of their wealth to improve the lives of everybody.

elric 5y ago

What are you on about? There is very little support in Europe for American drone strikes, or indeed for many other American "interventions". Fuck propaganda? Sure. On all sides of the spectrum. This game of finger pointing is pointless.

itsoktocry 5y ago
>There is very little support in Europe for American drone strikes There's enough support that a drone strike can wipe out a family and the military can determine "no wrongdoing". https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/air-force-watchdog-finds-no-wrongdoing-in-afghan-drone-strike/ https://nypost.com/2021/11/03/air-force-watchdog-finds-no-wr... I think this is what people talk about when they refer to the hypocrisy.
- elric 5y ago
  This is an article by an American newspaper reporting on an American investigation of an American attack. How exactly does this pertain to European support?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
itsoktocry 5y ago
>Fuck propaganda? This war is going to be an amazing study in the importance of information warfare. The propaganda machine is running in full force from everyone.
- spacemanmatt 5y ago
  Fuck propaganda. We only study it because we have to.

benque 5y ago

Okay, what's your plan? You want Germany to roll over when Putin attacks? Germany should double that military budget :)

markvdb 5y ago
- German government defense spending for 2021: 46.8 * 10^9€ [0] - German government defense spending for 2022: >=100 * 10^9€ [1] quote from [1]: "Scholz said that the German government would allocate €100 billion earmarked for the German armed forces, the Bundeswehr, in the 2022 budget. "From "From now on, more than 2% of our GDP will be invested in our defense," Scholz said. Germany has previously been criticized for devoting less than the 2% mark on defense spending called for by NATO membership rules. The €100 billion will be allocated into a "special fund" for the German armed forces." [0] https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/cabinet-budget-2021-1790544 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/cabinet-budget-2... [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reversal-on-ukraine-weapons-policy-response-to-putins-aggression/a-60932652 https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reversal-on-ukraine-weapons-p...

koonsolo 5y ago

You mean it would be a great idea for Europe to give Putin more money? Nice strategy! It seems that it was a mistake from EU to be so dependent on Russian gas, and funded their army that is now attacking us.

southerntofu 5y ago

> Look at the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars and euros that are pouring into weapons. It's a trend, especially since 2001 and especially since the past decade, that all major countries around the planet are reinforcing their border and military, reinstating various forms of military service, outlawing criticism of the Nation State, appropriating or otherwise securing crucial/strategic resources in former/current colonies... I agree with you it's disastrous. And i'm all in favor of dismantling military institutions worldwide without waiting, but it's hardly a european problem. Fascism is on the rise on every continent (Brasil, France, India, Japan, Russia, China) so framing the problem as a european problem is not helping. Although of course it's important to point out the ethnocentrism at the heart of european discourse: https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/72c71a0e-04f6-4337-b9ff-261d8d9f8bb5.png https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/72c71a0e-04f6-4337-b9ff-261d8d... What can help is reviving the internationalist/pacifist movement. A few decades ago when i was a kid we had millions of people marching down the streets against the cold war and against all forms of colonialism, and i do mean against both sides of the conflict (third-worldism). Popular solidarity goes beyond borders as long as we don't let nationalism and its arbitrary borders taint our hearts. And please note that i don't mean "peaceful" when i say pacifism: i'm all for blowing up military installations and Nation States, and reaching world peace and social justice "by any means necessary". We need to dismiss propaganda from corrupt western "democracies" as well as modern autocracies. But that does not mean we shouldn't condemn a neo-fascist State (Russia) for invading its former colony (Ukraine).