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Having known Russian people on and off all my life, and having read numerous stories of conscription, this is not only the smartest but the most humane thing Uk

Having known Russian people on and off all my life, and having read numerous stories of conscription, this is not only the smartest but the most humane thing Ukraine could do right now. You are what you do when it counts.

itsoktocry 5y ago
>conscription, this is not only the smartest but the most humane thing Ukraine could do right now. I agree, it's "positive propaganda". Along with videos of deceased soldiers and blown up machinery, showing the borderline brainwashed and naive the consequences of their actions may put a stop to this before it gets...more out-of-hand.
- spacemanmatt 5y ago
  The definition propaganda I could find easily includes "biased or misleading information" I don't think this meets the definition. It's 100% wartime messaging with a political purpose in mind, but I think it is a poor example of propaganda.
  - jacobolus 5y ago
    The word propaganda means public messaging intended to influence a population, and did not originally connote trickery. The word is roughly a synonym of 'public relations'. Such messaging is often misleading, which has led to common negative connotations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/propaganda#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/propaganda#English
    - spacemanmatt 5y ago
      The word has connoted trickery since before I was born. I don't really think that usage deprecated for generations is especially applicable.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    It's just another psyop. The only information you are getting from either side right now is just psyops and disinformation. As expected, it is an actual war, after all. Russia claimed they had zero losses after the first day. then Ukraine comes out and claims they killed 2000 russian soldiers on the very first day, with like 100 tanks and 500 APCs. All in one day, lol. All sorts of other wild claims from both sides, and I'd expect this one is too. One of them is now claimed to be fake by the other side. Alikhan Dasaev is supposedly a long time resident of Kiev and a Ukrainian citizen of 20 years. Allegedly, the video was made soon after Chechens allegedly dispatched 10,000 spec op troops to Ukraine in order to storm Kiev. Chechens are renowned to be fearless fighters, but what an incredibly overstated number, why not one billion gazillion of navy seals? source: https://novayagazeta-livejournal-com.translate.goog/16360931.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://novayagazeta-livejournal-com.translate.goog/16360931...
    - jacobolus 5y ago
      There are an awful lot of videos of burned out columns of Russian military vehicles. https://twitter.com/RALee85 https://twitter.com/RALee85 Current Ukrainian claims of Russian losses may be inflated, but it’s hard to tell from outside: 27 Planes, 26 Helicopters, 146 Tanks, 706 Armoured vehicles, 49 Cannons, 1 Buk missile launcher, 4 Grad missile launchers, 30 Cars, 60 Cysterns, 2 UAVs, 2 Ships/boats, 4300 Personnel. Source: https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1497882874053341185 https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1497882874053341185
      - inter_netuser 5y ago
        with this much damage, I'd think we'd see WAY MORE videos, and some actual security experts agree on that too: https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497717078085804037 https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497717078085804037
        spacemanmatt 5y ago
        I can't operate a SAM at the same time as the camera app. There may be good reasons for the dearth of footage.
readonthegoapp 5y ago
are you against conscription, or just russian conscription?
belter 5y ago
It's good policy to treat your prisoners of war very well, despite what you might think of their motives. They are more likely to surrender. At the end you are just helping save the life of your own.

itsoktocry 5y ago

>conscription, this is not only the smartest but the most humane thing Ukraine could do right now. I agree, it's "positive propaganda". Along with videos of deceased soldiers and blown up machinery, showing the borderline brainwashed and naive the consequences of their actions may put a stop to this before it gets...more out-of-hand.

spacemanmatt 5y ago
The definition propaganda I could find easily includes "biased or misleading information" I don't think this meets the definition. It's 100% wartime messaging with a political purpose in mind, but I think it is a poor example of propaganda.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  The word propaganda means public messaging intended to influence a population, and did not originally connote trickery. The word is roughly a synonym of 'public relations'. Such messaging is often misleading, which has led to common negative connotations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/propaganda#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/propaganda#English
  - spacemanmatt 5y ago
    The word has connoted trickery since before I was born. I don't really think that usage deprecated for generations is especially applicable.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  It's just another psyop. The only information you are getting from either side right now is just psyops and disinformation. As expected, it is an actual war, after all. Russia claimed they had zero losses after the first day. then Ukraine comes out and claims they killed 2000 russian soldiers on the very first day, with like 100 tanks and 500 APCs. All in one day, lol. All sorts of other wild claims from both sides, and I'd expect this one is too. One of them is now claimed to be fake by the other side. Alikhan Dasaev is supposedly a long time resident of Kiev and a Ukrainian citizen of 20 years. Allegedly, the video was made soon after Chechens allegedly dispatched 10,000 spec op troops to Ukraine in order to storm Kiev. Chechens are renowned to be fearless fighters, but what an incredibly overstated number, why not one billion gazillion of navy seals? source: https://novayagazeta-livejournal-com.translate.goog/16360931.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://novayagazeta-livejournal-com.translate.goog/16360931...
  - jacobolus 5y ago
    There are an awful lot of videos of burned out columns of Russian military vehicles. https://twitter.com/RALee85 https://twitter.com/RALee85 Current Ukrainian claims of Russian losses may be inflated, but it’s hard to tell from outside: 27 Planes, 26 Helicopters, 146 Tanks, 706 Armoured vehicles, 49 Cannons, 1 Buk missile launcher, 4 Grad missile launchers, 30 Cars, 60 Cysterns, 2 UAVs, 2 Ships/boats, 4300 Personnel. Source: https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1497882874053341185 https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1497882874053341185
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      with this much damage, I'd think we'd see WAY MORE videos, and some actual security experts agree on that too: https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497717078085804037 https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1497717078085804037
      - spacemanmatt 5y ago
        I can't operate a SAM at the same time as the camera app. There may be good reasons for the dearth of footage.

readonthegoapp 5y ago

are you against conscription, or just russian conscription?

belter 5y ago

It's good policy to treat your prisoners of war very well, despite what you might think of their motives. They are more likely to surrender. At the end you are just helping save the life of your own.