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They're not really comparable. 1.) Kyiv is 50mi from the border, Baghdad is 200mi. 2.) Iraq was a numerically far superior force to the coalition, with >500,0

They're not really comparable. 1.) Kyiv is 50mi from the border, Baghdad is 200mi. 2.) Iraq was a numerically far superior force to the coalition, with >500,000 active soldiers and >1.3 million total. Clearing out that many people simply takes time. 3) The coalition moved slowly and largely neutralized resistance along their way, they didn't skip settlements or cities. Russia is trying deep strikes and bypassing/avoiding many of the larger cities/settlements. And those places are not necessarily under any kind of coherent siege at this point either. 4) Coalition losses in the entire war, where they were again, fighting a numerically far superior force, were tiny. ~200 killed. Estimates of Russian losses so far are 10x+ that and with a lot of lost equipment. I'm not suggesting I think the Ukrainian position is great or that they're poised to win other than via long insurgency, just that I don't think the comparison works.

baybal2 5y ago
Yes, it's not US-Iraq war, but Iran Iraq war, and Putinism, and Baathism are eerely similar.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > but Iran Iraq war The quick two week land grab by Iraq that turned into an 8-year slog that they got nothing out of? Yeah, I can see that.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
iamshs 5y ago
Iraq saw lots of Civilian casualties and we are not seeing it in this invasion. As someone who opposes this invasion 100% it has been quite stark to see cordial behaviour of Russian soldiers until now with the local populace. They are not hostile. Infrastructure is intact, electricity and internet is working. There is no vibe of an occupation. There are no massed artillery barrages. Civilian casualties are probably lower then Russian Army’s. There seem to be no embedded journalism from Russians. (I don’t follow Russian propaganda outlets and have avoided the tankie echo chamber). Contrast this with so many blue ticks and Ukrainian media outlets spreading outright lies and going viral. If US was directly invoked, 10 fact checking orgs would have propped by now and started warning on game videos being spread. At the end it is still an invasion and Ukrainians will be killed and come under an occupation, but US is more ruthless with its occupations. US media machine can whip anyone into a frenzy with their reporting. I absolutely don’t support sanctions on Russia, only Russians are going to beat the brunt of it. On one hand we are seeing visuals of Russians protesting and want them to stand up against Putin and Western governments seem to be ok with brutalizing those same people, even if in minority. War is a nasty virus on brain for people away from all this. It is a privileged take but mental faculties are overloaded with the emotional language being used. A TV station was showing how to make Molotov cocktails to non-Ukrainian audience. Is that helpful at all? So much thoughts on this invasion. Have seen maybe 4 conflicts (Kargil, Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine); numerous military mobilizations and small scale strikes between sworn enemy nations. It is just bile churning to see the whole events play down with no accountability.
- seer_la 5y ago
  > Contrast this with so many blue ticks and Ukrainian media outlets spreading outright lies and going viral What sort of lies are they spreading out of curiosity?
- singularity2001 5y ago
  cordial behaviour of Russian soldiers Did you see those tanks rolling over civilian cars trying to escape? There are no massed artillery barrages Did they not show on your channels, or what is your requirement for 'massed'?
  - poisonarena 5y ago
    While Russians are shelling and hitting civilians, that particular tank incident is debunked, it was actually a ukrainian vehicle that was making a really hard turn and accidentally ran over him, also the guy survived. Was just a crazy accident. I think it was used as propaganda earlier on as "russian tank rolls over civilian car". There is a video of the old guy in the car getting rescued, and there is another video of whole incident from a different angle, and it looks pretty clear.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    >Did you see those tanks rolling over civilian cars trying to escape? There's one famous video of an APC going over a car, and it's not clear, but some people have mentioned that it was an Ukranian APC (in any case, the crash looked like a mistake). I don't know whose APC it was, but without having deep knowledge it's really hard to tell just from the footage. Also, for the record, there are many videos of american tanks rolling over iraqi cars, even one particularly notable video where they were doing it on purpose as a punishment.
    - vanusa 5y ago
contingencies 5y ago
Coalition losses in the entire war, where they were again, fighting a numerically far superior force, were tiny. ~200 killed. Estimates of Russian losses so far are 10x+ that The latest figure reported by Ukraine was they have killed 3500 Russians already. So allowing for a few hours of losses, about 20x.
- simonh 5y ago
  I find those estimates very hard to believe. The real number of deaths is probably in the mid hundreds on both sides. Bear in mind for each soldier killed you’d expect several times that injured and I doubt the Russians have 10,000 total casualties at this point. That would be the equivalent of several dozen Battalion Tactical Groups disabled.
  - contingencies 5y ago
    Last I read was 4500x a few hours ago.[0] I agree it's hard to place faith in the figures. However, one would assume the majority of the fighting hasn't appeared online. Browsing the mediaverse today I did see a few (like 3 different) videos showing what appeared to be unique columns of disabled Russian vehicles. Apparently these were unique, owing to different surrounding environs. That could easily have added to 300 casualties in itself... IIRC one column was a failed Russian push in to Kiev, one was outside Kharkiv and a separate one I can't recall the location. Widely reported were 200 dead Russians at yesterday's airfield. And there was subsequent fighting there too. So it's roughly in the anticipated order of magnitude. [0] Similar report https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMmXu6eWYAMOSUB.jpg https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMmXu6eWYAMOSUB.jpg
    - reitanqild 5y ago
      Ukraine is calling on Red Cross to come and help them return the bodies, another brilliant move from them. It means - as far as I can see - that they are ready to show their cards to Red Cross and the international community. Also we see Russians ask for unconditional talks, which wouldn't be happening if they felt they had a good chance. I think, as I have hinted to before, that Russians would be wise to break a leg instead of going down to Ukraine. Same for Russian factory workers, store workers and railway workers: if one can delay/prevent young ones from being sent down to the righteously furious Ukrainians, that might save many lives.

baybal2 5y ago

Yes, it's not US-Iraq war, but Iran Iraq war, and Putinism, and Baathism are eerely similar.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> but Iran Iraq war The quick two week land grab by Iraq that turned into an 8-year slog that they got nothing out of? Yeah, I can see that.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

iamshs 5y ago

Iraq saw lots of Civilian casualties and we are not seeing it in this invasion. As someone who opposes this invasion 100% it has been quite stark to see cordial behaviour of Russian soldiers until now with the local populace. They are not hostile. Infrastructure is intact, electricity and internet is working. There is no vibe of an occupation. There are no massed artillery barrages. Civilian casualties are probably lower then Russian Army’s. There seem to be no embedded journalism from Russians. (I don’t follow Russian propaganda outlets and have avoided the tankie echo chamber). Contrast this with so many blue ticks and Ukrainian media outlets spreading outright lies and going viral. If US was directly invoked, 10 fact checking orgs would have propped by now and started warning on game videos being spread. At the end it is still an invasion and Ukrainians will be killed and come under an occupation, but US is more ruthless with its occupations. US media machine can whip anyone into a frenzy with their reporting. I absolutely don’t support sanctions on Russia, only Russians are going to beat the brunt of it. On one hand we are seeing visuals of Russians protesting and want them to stand up against Putin and Western governments seem to be ok with brutalizing those same people, even if in minority. War is a nasty virus on brain for people away from all this. It is a privileged take but mental faculties are overloaded with the emotional language being used. A TV station was showing how to make Molotov cocktails to non-Ukrainian audience. Is that helpful at all? So much thoughts on this invasion. Have seen maybe 4 conflicts (Kargil, Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine); numerous military mobilizations and small scale strikes between sworn enemy nations. It is just bile churning to see the whole events play down with no accountability.

seer_la 5y ago
> Contrast this with so many blue ticks and Ukrainian media outlets spreading outright lies and going viral What sort of lies are they spreading out of curiosity?
singularity2001 5y ago
cordial behaviour of Russian soldiers Did you see those tanks rolling over civilian cars trying to escape? There are no massed artillery barrages Did they not show on your channels, or what is your requirement for 'massed'?
- poisonarena 5y ago
  While Russians are shelling and hitting civilians, that particular tank incident is debunked, it was actually a ukrainian vehicle that was making a really hard turn and accidentally ran over him, also the guy survived. Was just a crazy accident. I think it was used as propaganda earlier on as "russian tank rolls over civilian car". There is a video of the old guy in the car getting rescued, and there is another video of whole incident from a different angle, and it looks pretty clear.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pasabagi 5y ago
  >Did you see those tanks rolling over civilian cars trying to escape? There's one famous video of an APC going over a car, and it's not clear, but some people have mentioned that it was an Ukranian APC (in any case, the crash looked like a mistake). I don't know whose APC it was, but without having deep knowledge it's really hard to tell just from the footage. Also, for the record, there are many videos of american tanks rolling over iraqi cars, even one particularly notable video where they were doing it on purpose as a punishment.
  - vanusa 5y ago

contingencies 5y ago

Coalition losses in the entire war, where they were again, fighting a numerically far superior force, were tiny. ~200 killed. Estimates of Russian losses so far are 10x+ that The latest figure reported by Ukraine was they have killed 3500 Russians already. So allowing for a few hours of losses, about 20x.

simonh 5y ago
I find those estimates very hard to believe. The real number of deaths is probably in the mid hundreds on both sides. Bear in mind for each soldier killed you’d expect several times that injured and I doubt the Russians have 10,000 total casualties at this point. That would be the equivalent of several dozen Battalion Tactical Groups disabled.
- contingencies 5y ago
  Last I read was 4500x a few hours ago.[0] I agree it's hard to place faith in the figures. However, one would assume the majority of the fighting hasn't appeared online. Browsing the mediaverse today I did see a few (like 3 different) videos showing what appeared to be unique columns of disabled Russian vehicles. Apparently these were unique, owing to different surrounding environs. That could easily have added to 300 casualties in itself... IIRC one column was a failed Russian push in to Kiev, one was outside Kharkiv and a separate one I can't recall the location. Widely reported were 200 dead Russians at yesterday's airfield. And there was subsequent fighting there too. So it's roughly in the anticipated order of magnitude. [0] Similar report https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMmXu6eWYAMOSUB.jpg https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FFMmXu6eWYAMOSUB.jpg
  - reitanqild 5y ago
    Ukraine is calling on Red Cross to come and help them return the bodies, another brilliant move from them. It means - as far as I can see - that they are ready to show their cards to Red Cross and the international community. Also we see Russians ask for unconditional talks, which wouldn't be happening if they felt they had a good chance. I think, as I have hinted to before, that Russians would be wise to break a leg instead of going down to Ukraine. Same for Russian factory workers, store workers and railway workers: if one can delay/prevent young ones from being sent down to the righteously furious Ukrainians, that might save many lives.