5 ms·

This is correct. Putin has seen Ukraine turn more and more westward. Flirting and thinking about joining the EU and NATO. Which would mean "NATO" (US) troops ri

This is correct. Putin has seen Ukraine turn more and more westward. Flirting and thinking about joining the EU and NATO. Which would mean "NATO" (US) troops right over the board and mere hours away form Moscow. Simply unacceptable to Putin.

rootusrootus 5y ago
Aren't there NATO countries right next to Ukraine that are just as close to Moscow already? Having Ukraine join NATO would be a bitter pill to swallow, perhaps, but it wouldn't bring NATO any closer than it is today. And madman though Putin may seem to be, he knows NATO isn't an offensive organization.
- VictorPath 5y ago
  > And madman though Putin may seem to be, he knows NATO isn't an offensive organization Sure, like the defensive bombing of Libya by NATO.
- gred 5y ago
  > And madman though Putin may seem to be, he knows NATO isn't an offensive organization. I think he may legit see it that way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkl2XgZlw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkl2XgZlw0
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Not as close to Moscow, no. They're closer to St. Petersburg, though. And I'm going to judge Putin by his own words. He says he's threatened by NATO on his borders? Then he shouldn't have 70% of his military on the border of Ukraine. It leaves him wide open to an invasion from NATO members Estonia and Latvia.
- Thorrez 5y ago
  363 miles from Latvia to Moscow, 280 miles from Ukraine to Moscow. I'm not sure if I would call Latvia "right next to Ukraine", since it doesn't border Ukraine.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Maybe in Europe that feels like a meaningful difference, but to me, 80 miles is nothing. Belarus is the odd one out. Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, all NATO members. Having Ukraine becoming a NATO member would not present a meaningful strategic change, it's 100% just a personal thing.
indymike 5y ago
I'm pretty sure if Ukraine survives this, they will be NATO members quickly.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  Only if Ukraine somehow also quickly recovers the territory it lost in 2014. NATO requires that new members have zero disputed territories before they join because territorial disputes could immediately force NATO to intervene.
  - indymike 5y ago
    Exceptions will be made. This situation was created by this rule and inflexible administration.
    - will4274 5y ago
      Ukraine also has a Nazi problem. Putin used it as a pretext for this war inside Russia, but outside of wartime, folks in Berlin and DC consider it a real problem for closer alliance too. Ukraine also has a corruption problem. I think NATO will keep Ukraine on the cusp for 20 years like they did with Romania, before they allow them to join.
      - indymike 5y ago
        You could say that about the US, too.

rootusrootus 5y ago

Aren't there NATO countries right next to Ukraine that are just as close to Moscow already? Having Ukraine join NATO would be a bitter pill to swallow, perhaps, but it wouldn't bring NATO any closer than it is today. And madman though Putin may seem to be, he knows NATO isn't an offensive organization.

VictorPath 5y ago
> And madman though Putin may seem to be, he knows NATO isn't an offensive organization Sure, like the defensive bombing of Libya by NATO.
gred 5y ago
> And madman though Putin may seem to be, he knows NATO isn't an offensive organization. I think he may legit see it that way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkl2XgZlw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkl2XgZlw0
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Not as close to Moscow, no. They're closer to St. Petersburg, though. And I'm going to judge Putin by his own words. He says he's threatened by NATO on his borders? Then he shouldn't have 70% of his military on the border of Ukraine. It leaves him wide open to an invasion from NATO members Estonia and Latvia.
Thorrez 5y ago
363 miles from Latvia to Moscow, 280 miles from Ukraine to Moscow. I'm not sure if I would call Latvia "right next to Ukraine", since it doesn't border Ukraine.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Maybe in Europe that feels like a meaningful difference, but to me, 80 miles is nothing. Belarus is the odd one out. Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, all NATO members. Having Ukraine becoming a NATO member would not present a meaningful strategic change, it's 100% just a personal thing.

indymike 5y ago

I'm pretty sure if Ukraine survives this, they will be NATO members quickly.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
themacguffinman 5y ago
Only if Ukraine somehow also quickly recovers the territory it lost in 2014. NATO requires that new members have zero disputed territories before they join because territorial disputes could immediately force NATO to intervene.
- indymike 5y ago
  Exceptions will be made. This situation was created by this rule and inflexible administration.
  - will4274 5y ago
    Ukraine also has a Nazi problem. Putin used it as a pretext for this war inside Russia, but outside of wartime, folks in Berlin and DC consider it a real problem for closer alliance too. Ukraine also has a corruption problem. I think NATO will keep Ukraine on the cusp for 20 years like they did with Romania, before they allow them to join.
    - indymike 5y ago
      You could say that about the US, too.