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NextSTEP didn't run Quartz, no. It used Display PostScript -- a comparably impressive achievement at the time. It also wasn't that slow on the Intel machines,

NextSTEP didn't run Quartz, no. It used Display PostScript -- a comparably impressive achievement at the time. It also wasn't that slow on the Intel machines, e.g. the black NextStep PCs Elonex made in the UK. It was quite nippy on some of the earlier NeXT hardware, too. BeOS was a very different operating system and -- let's be clear -- would have been a terrible, terrible choice. I tell you what was slow: WebObjects on the Mach subsystem layer on top of Windows NT.

tambourine_man 5y ago
Mach was slow, disk access (the spinning beachball Mac OS inherited was supposed to be a CD originally) was very slow. Using a Turing complete language for drawing was scary. > BeOS was a very different operating system and -- let's be clear -- would have been a terrible, terrible choice. Oh, sure. But it sure was snappy. And gorgeous. And that file system was awesome.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  > Mach was slow, disk access (the spinning beachball Mac OS inherited was supposed to be a CD originally) was very slow. https://pbfcomics.com/comics/beach-closing/ https://pbfcomics.com/comics/beach-closing/ > Using a Turing complete language for drawing was scary. Not particularly sure why. Aren't all apps using Turing complete languages to draw on screen? It's just a question of which layer that happens. Display PostScript did the same, surely?
  - dreamcompiler 5y ago
    The comment is about the display layer. Yes [almost] all computer languages are Turing complete; the distinction is about the level at which they produce drawing instructions. Some simply set particular bits in memory that cause pixels to light up. That's essentially how the original Mac worked. More abstract is producing instructions to "draw a rectangle" or "rotate all future lines by 20 degrees." That's the "display list" approach and it's more flexible than manipulating raw pixels. More flexible still is producing commands that can contain loops like Postscript. Now we're in tricky territory, because it's easy to make a mistake that e.g. produces an infinite loop and the whole display locks up. And it's much harder to reason about such things as the update rate of the drawing process because the drawing commands are themselves Turing complete. This doesn't matter when you're merely printing because there is no refresh. Not so with an interactive display. That's why the "Display" in "Display Postscript" was a big deal.
    - tambourine_man 5y ago
      I think PostScript was considered “too powerful” for its own good by the industry, which is why it was mostly replaced by PDF (initially a subset of it). With PostScript, you can have a document that renders differently every time you open it (on purpose). Or a file that will never finish rendering or printing, like the infinite loop you mentioned. PostScript infinite possibilities are cool and cute, but not all that practical for a graphics description language.
      - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
        > With PostScript, you can have a document that renders differently every time you open it (on purpose). Or a file that will never finish rendering or printing, like the infinite loop you mentioned. There was a font, wasn't there -- was it Just van Rossum's Beowulf -- that drew itself slightly differently every time? Can't find a reference now. edit: it was! https://www.fontshop.com/families/ff-beowolf https://www.fontshop.com/families/ff-beowolf
        tambourine_man 5y ago
        Oh my god. Thanks for this.

tambourine_man 5y ago

Mach was slow, disk access (the spinning beachball Mac OS inherited was supposed to be a CD originally) was very slow. Using a Turing complete language for drawing was scary. > BeOS was a very different operating system and -- let's be clear -- would have been a terrible, terrible choice. Oh, sure. But it sure was snappy. And gorgeous. And that file system was awesome.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
> Mach was slow, disk access (the spinning beachball Mac OS inherited was supposed to be a CD originally) was very slow. https://pbfcomics.com/comics/beach-closing/ https://pbfcomics.com/comics/beach-closing/ > Using a Turing complete language for drawing was scary. Not particularly sure why. Aren't all apps using Turing complete languages to draw on screen? It's just a question of which layer that happens. Display PostScript did the same, surely?
- dreamcompiler 5y ago
  The comment is about the display layer. Yes [almost] all computer languages are Turing complete; the distinction is about the level at which they produce drawing instructions. Some simply set particular bits in memory that cause pixels to light up. That's essentially how the original Mac worked. More abstract is producing instructions to "draw a rectangle" or "rotate all future lines by 20 degrees." That's the "display list" approach and it's more flexible than manipulating raw pixels. More flexible still is producing commands that can contain loops like Postscript. Now we're in tricky territory, because it's easy to make a mistake that e.g. produces an infinite loop and the whole display locks up. And it's much harder to reason about such things as the update rate of the drawing process because the drawing commands are themselves Turing complete. This doesn't matter when you're merely printing because there is no refresh. Not so with an interactive display. That's why the "Display" in "Display Postscript" was a big deal.
  - tambourine_man 5y ago
    I think PostScript was considered “too powerful” for its own good by the industry, which is why it was mostly replaced by PDF (initially a subset of it). With PostScript, you can have a document that renders differently every time you open it (on purpose). Or a file that will never finish rendering or printing, like the infinite loop you mentioned. PostScript infinite possibilities are cool and cute, but not all that practical for a graphics description language.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      > With PostScript, you can have a document that renders differently every time you open it (on purpose). Or a file that will never finish rendering or printing, like the infinite loop you mentioned. There was a font, wasn't there -- was it Just van Rossum's Beowulf -- that drew itself slightly differently every time? Can't find a reference now. edit: it was! https://www.fontshop.com/families/ff-beowolf https://www.fontshop.com/families/ff-beowolf
      - tambourine_man 5y ago
        Oh my god. Thanks for this.