6 ms·

Show me the handheld devices that were running full-blown Linux at the levels the iPhone was (i.e. with a responsive UI). Linux being Linux I’m sure it can be r

Show me the handheld devices that were running full-blown Linux at the levels the iPhone was (i.e. with a responsive UI). Linux being Linux I’m sure it can be run on a sock but that’s not the same as what iPhone OS 1.0 was.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
Well of course they weren't running it at iPhone level performance. First because the device and the software hadn't been optimised for each other. And second, the fact that iPhone OS was not a "full blown" Unix OS is precisely why it _did_ have that performance on otherwise reasonably similar Samsung ARM hardware (better specs but not, you know, alien technological advance stuff). The point is that there is this tradeoff. Developers who'd squeezed full multitasking Linux into phones would have been well aware of the kind of performance they'd see without multitasking and without a BSD subsystem. FWIW Jim Gettys' handhelds.org project was demonstrating -- years earlier -- pretty impressive Linux GUI performance on much earlier hardware that had been only modestly adjusted for it [0]. Including for example tilt-sensitivity. Those who knew about those projects could see that Apple had likely benefited enormously from seeing what was being done, and had decided to make an OS profile for iPhone that prioritised single-app performance with a sizeable slice of OS X. [0] The iPaq as a product was designed in part to explicitly accommodate research from the DEC Itsy on off-the-shelf devices
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > Well of course they weren't running it at iPhone level performance. First because the device and the software hadn't been optimised for each other. I disagree entirely. Maemo as designed, built and optimized for low-powered mobile devices compared to desktops.
  - wmf 5y ago
    If it was so optimized, why did it let apps run down the battery in 30 minutes?
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      I don't know, you tell me? I could get hours of FreeCiv out of the N770, and that will steal a core of even a modern processor for a while. Both the N770 and N810 were marketed as products for early adopters and developers.
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  Ah the goals are shifting I see
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    Too few words to tell if you're being sarcastic, rude or whimsical. (edit: I'm going with rude) The entire mobile phone industry was -- and still is -- making these tradeoffs. (Android used and uses a slightly more advanced process model that iOS eventually adopted, but even it does not and did not offer full multitasking). It's not shifting goals, it's an indication that there's more than one possible goal to shoot at.
heavyset_go 5y ago
Nokia Nxx series like the Nokia N770 and Nokia N800, and then the N810 and N900. Maemo[1] was full-fledged Linux, and you could run full-blown Linux applications. GTK apps were natively supported. I played a lot of FreeCiv on them and used SSH's X forwarding on them. Maemo became Meego, which became SailfishOS. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo
- filmgirlcw 5y ago
  The N810 and N900 were AFTER the iPhone (N900 significantly so), and it’s quite revisionist to compare the N770 or N800 (or N810 for that matter) to the first iPhone, in terms of its performance and feel. Yes, on a pure feature list comparison, the N770 and N800 might have compared well (or even better, especially for iPhone OS 1.0), but those devices never felt the same as an iPhone. Capacitive touch screens made a big difference too. The N-series Nokias (including the N95 and N97 phones) were really special, but they weren’t iPhones. The iPhone just made everything else feel old instantly.
  - stonogo 5y ago
    Until you tried to copy/paste text, and then you went back to your Nokia. This is a pretty subjective thing you're trying to argue, here.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

Well of course they weren't running it at iPhone level performance. First because the device and the software hadn't been optimised for each other. And second, the fact that iPhone OS was not a "full blown" Unix OS is precisely why it _did_ have that performance on otherwise reasonably similar Samsung ARM hardware (better specs but not, you know, alien technological advance stuff). The point is that there is this tradeoff. Developers who'd squeezed full multitasking Linux into phones would have been well aware of the kind of performance they'd see without multitasking and without a BSD subsystem. FWIW Jim Gettys' handhelds.org project was demonstrating -- years earlier -- pretty impressive Linux GUI performance on much earlier hardware that had been only modestly adjusted for it [0]. Including for example tilt-sensitivity. Those who knew about those projects could see that Apple had likely benefited enormously from seeing what was being done, and had decided to make an OS profile for iPhone that prioritised single-app performance with a sizeable slice of OS X. [0] The iPaq as a product was designed in part to explicitly accommodate research from the DEC Itsy on off-the-shelf devices

heavyset_go 5y ago
> Well of course they weren't running it at iPhone level performance. First because the device and the software hadn't been optimised for each other. I disagree entirely. Maemo as designed, built and optimized for low-powered mobile devices compared to desktops.
- wmf 5y ago
  If it was so optimized, why did it let apps run down the battery in 30 minutes?
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    I don't know, you tell me? I could get hours of FreeCiv out of the N770, and that will steal a core of even a modern processor for a while. Both the N770 and N810 were marketed as products for early adopters and developers.
imwillofficial 5y ago
Ah the goals are shifting I see
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  Too few words to tell if you're being sarcastic, rude or whimsical. (edit: I'm going with rude) The entire mobile phone industry was -- and still is -- making these tradeoffs. (Android used and uses a slightly more advanced process model that iOS eventually adopted, but even it does not and did not offer full multitasking). It's not shifting goals, it's an indication that there's more than one possible goal to shoot at.

heavyset_go 5y ago

Nokia Nxx series like the Nokia N770 and Nokia N800, and then the N810 and N900. Maemo[1] was full-fledged Linux, and you could run full-blown Linux applications. GTK apps were natively supported. I played a lot of FreeCiv on them and used SSH's X forwarding on them. Maemo became Meego, which became SailfishOS. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo

filmgirlcw 5y ago
The N810 and N900 were AFTER the iPhone (N900 significantly so), and it’s quite revisionist to compare the N770 or N800 (or N810 for that matter) to the first iPhone, in terms of its performance and feel. Yes, on a pure feature list comparison, the N770 and N800 might have compared well (or even better, especially for iPhone OS 1.0), but those devices never felt the same as an iPhone. Capacitive touch screens made a big difference too. The N-series Nokias (including the N95 and N97 phones) were really special, but they weren’t iPhones. The iPhone just made everything else feel old instantly.
- stonogo 5y ago
  Until you tried to copy/paste text, and then you went back to your Nokia. This is a pretty subjective thing you're trying to argue, here.