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One think I really, really hope will come out of this, regardless of the outcome - to cut back dependence on any Russian import including gas and oil to ideally

One think I really, really hope will come out of this, regardless of the outcome - to cut back dependence on any Russian import including gas and oil to ideally 0 across whole Europe. It doesn't make sense to cut one's branch off by paying him to build & maintain his army. If it costs more, well damn that's the price for freedom I guess right now, still acceptable given circumstances. I've been saying it for years, also here repeatedly - Russia and its current 'leader' is by far the biggest threat to European free western society we value so much here. Even the most stubborn and russia-invested ones are getting the memo now.

toyg 5y ago
The counter-argument is that, often, it's more effective to coopt your opponent rather than to fight him. I reckon that giving them NS2 would have avoided this war - at worst they'd have taken just the Donbass like they took Crimea.
- salawat 5y ago
  ...Keep your enemies closer aside, one does not hop into bed with a hostile power and just expect things to go well. They will not hesitate to pull out of the arrangement when it hurts the most. In fact, one can practically count on it in most cases.
- baq 5y ago
  that's... not how he thinks. he has a number and it is more.
ilyich 5y ago
>If it costs more, well damn that's the price for freedom I guess right now, still acceptable given circumstances. Without Russian energy supply Europeans will be heating their houses with freedom. And European industry will also be using freedom as fuel. There is no alternative to this in any foreseeable future.
- eitland 5y ago
  Norway has been holding back oil production. If needed we can essily ramp it up quite a bit for a few years. And, as I mentioned the other day, I at least would be positive to sell at a lower prices to friendly countries in Europe until we get this situation under control.
- kavalg 5y ago
  Well, heating homes with "freedom" may at least get us more babies to solve the aging EU problem :). Won't work for the industry I guess.

toyg 5y ago

The counter-argument is that, often, it's more effective to coopt your opponent rather than to fight him. I reckon that giving them NS2 would have avoided this war - at worst they'd have taken just the Donbass like they took Crimea.

salawat 5y ago
...Keep your enemies closer aside, one does not hop into bed with a hostile power and just expect things to go well. They will not hesitate to pull out of the arrangement when it hurts the most. In fact, one can practically count on it in most cases.
baq 5y ago
that's... not how he thinks. he has a number and it is more.

ilyich 5y ago

>If it costs more, well damn that's the price for freedom I guess right now, still acceptable given circumstances. Without Russian energy supply Europeans will be heating their houses with freedom. And European industry will also be using freedom as fuel. There is no alternative to this in any foreseeable future.

eitland 5y ago
Norway has been holding back oil production. If needed we can essily ramp it up quite a bit for a few years. And, as I mentioned the other day, I at least would be positive to sell at a lower prices to friendly countries in Europe until we get this situation under control.
kavalg 5y ago
Well, heating homes with "freedom" may at least get us more babies to solve the aging EU problem :). Won't work for the industry I guess.