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> You don't need batteries per se, only energy storage systems. That's true, but there are synergies. We will need lots and lots of batteries for electrifying

> You don't need batteries per se, only energy storage systems. That's true, but there are synergies. We will need lots and lots of batteries for electrifying the transportation. There's lots of R&D money in battery research. Much less in other types of storage. There's all the reasons to believe batteries will become cheaper in the long run by a factor of 2, or even more [1]. There are also a few advantages that batteries have over other types of storage: they don't have moving parts, they have quite high round-trip efficiency, their maintenance is cheap, the failure mode is not that bad. [1] https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/79236.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/79236.pdf

Ekaros 5y ago
Realistically you want different types of batteries for grid-scale or even home scale storage and transportation. With static installation mass and volume are little of concern, where as with transport they are critical. On other hand scale is also big difference. And lithium batteries in current form do have many risks. I can't even imagine what sort of project it would be to even control a fire in grid-scale installation...
- credit_guy 5y ago
  > I can't even imagine what sort of project it would be to even control a fire in grid-scale installation... You don't need to imagine it. Such a fire already happened. It was brought under control. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/tesla-megapack-fire-highlights-early-stage-issues-with-big-batteries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/tesla-megapack-fire-highligh...
- 41b696ef1113 5y ago
  >I can't even imagine what sort of project it would be to even control a fire in grid-scale installation... That is going to be true regardless of storage technology. Concentrating energy into a tiny volume is effectively making a bomb.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    We don't need a small volume. A water reservoir up a hill stores lots of energy efficiently. Iron-air batteries, when fully charged, are just a lot of pure iron. Lithium, when it burns produces gaseous lithium oxide, which becomes lye, drain opener, when it gets to your nose.

Ekaros 5y ago

Realistically you want different types of batteries for grid-scale or even home scale storage and transportation. With static installation mass and volume are little of concern, where as with transport they are critical. On other hand scale is also big difference. And lithium batteries in current form do have many risks. I can't even imagine what sort of project it would be to even control a fire in grid-scale installation...

credit_guy 5y ago
> I can't even imagine what sort of project it would be to even control a fire in grid-scale installation... You don't need to imagine it. Such a fire already happened. It was brought under control. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/tesla-megapack-fire-highlights-early-stage-issues-with-big-batteries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/tesla-megapack-fire-highligh...
41b696ef1113 5y ago
>I can't even imagine what sort of project it would be to even control a fire in grid-scale installation... That is going to be true regardless of storage technology. Concentrating energy into a tiny volume is effectively making a bomb.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  We don't need a small volume. A water reservoir up a hill stores lots of energy efficiently. Iron-air batteries, when fully charged, are just a lot of pure iron. Lithium, when it burns produces gaseous lithium oxide, which becomes lye, drain opener, when it gets to your nose.