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Great answer. This is related in my mind to the framing of crypto "pointlessly wasting" electricity - it's actually a fundamental part of securing the network b

by bavell 5y ago

Great answer. This is related in my mind to the framing of crypto "pointlessly wasting" electricity - it's actually a fundamental part of securing the network by making it prohibitively expensive to reverse or modify mined blocks. I'm open to alternatives to PoW but so far it's been the most successful tool to solve this problem.

anonporridge 5y ago
Proof of work is an alternative to military spending. Proof of stake doesn't solve this problem, as the top stakers end up needing to control (or get coopted by) the monopolies on violence. The traditional banking system is effectively an obscured proof of stake system. Proof of work also has the nice feature that every watt of energy used to acquire and secure bitcoin is a watt that can't be used for violence. You might like the work of Jason Lowry, a US Space Force Major who's currently studying bitcoin conceptualized as a new kind of military technology, https://twitter.com/JasonPLowery https://twitter.com/JasonPLowery
- 3np 5y ago
  > Proof of stake doesn't solve this problem, as the top stakers end up needing to control (or get coopted by) the monopolies on violence How so? Assuming (pseudo-)anonymity for stakers is possible.
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    Long lasting anonymity of stakers is impossible. Eventually, everyone will be tracked down. There's too much power at stake to remain hidden from establishment power forever. And anonymity of stakers who have unassailable control of the network consensus is exactly the problem. If you don't know who the king is or where he lives, then the peasants have zero ability to countervail his control authority when he starts abusing his power. No sovereign nation or person will sign up for a system like that without being violently coerced, like the US does to keep the rest of the world on the petrodollar standard.

by bavell 5y ago

anonporridge 5y ago

Proof of work is an alternative to military spending. Proof of stake doesn't solve this problem, as the top stakers end up needing to control (or get coopted by) the monopolies on violence. The traditional banking system is effectively an obscured proof of stake system. Proof of work also has the nice feature that every watt of energy used to acquire and secure bitcoin is a watt that can't be used for violence. You might like the work of Jason Lowry, a US Space Force Major who's currently studying bitcoin conceptualized as a new kind of military technology, https://twitter.com/JasonPLowery https://twitter.com/JasonPLowery

3np 5y ago
> Proof of stake doesn't solve this problem, as the top stakers end up needing to control (or get coopted by) the monopolies on violence How so? Assuming (pseudo-)anonymity for stakers is possible.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  Long lasting anonymity of stakers is impossible. Eventually, everyone will be tracked down. There's too much power at stake to remain hidden from establishment power forever. And anonymity of stakers who have unassailable control of the network consensus is exactly the problem. If you don't know who the king is or where he lives, then the peasants have zero ability to countervail his control authority when he starts abusing his power. No sovereign nation or person will sign up for a system like that without being violently coerced, like the US does to keep the rest of the world on the petrodollar standard.