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> the organisation’s security guarantees Q1: Do existing NATO members consult their citizens (referendum or political party making pledge before national elect

> the organisation’s security guarantees Q1: Do existing NATO members consult their citizens (referendum or political party making pledge before national election or similar) before a new member state is admitted? Q2: If not, why not? bonus Q: Imagine Taiwan were to apply to join NATO...

ghaff 5y ago
Because all(?) of the NATO members are representative democracies of some form or other. While obviously certain actions can be a domestic political issue (so in that sense citizens are "consulted"), there's no direct citizen vote on things like alliances, treaties, etc. (or many other actions a national government takes).
- logifail 5y ago
  > there's no direct citizen vote on things like alliances, treaties, etc One could imagine that if your country's citizens will be called upon to go to war to fight to defend a distant "country X", just because your country and "country X" happen to be in an alliance, that citizens informed consent would be desirable and required before signing such a treaty. Despite what your politicians might say, joining an military alliance has a cost, it's not a freebie.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
>bonus Q: Imagine Taiwan were to apply to join NATO... I imagine you would see a very similar response from China, probably a more swift and harsh than that of Russia.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  Most countries don't recognize Taiwan's independence. I'm always amazed people don't know that. Despite CCP's yelling that they want to invade the world has agreed to an awkward but stable status quo.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Perhaps we could invite them to be a 51st US state instead. Unfortunately, I imagine this would upset the awkward but stable status quo, not unlike the upset from Ukraine joining NATO.
belter 5y ago
Another difficulty for Sweden and Finland is that all need to agree. "NATO Enlargement & Open Door" "...NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of the Alliance’s founding document, the North Atlantic Treaty (1949). The Treaty states that NATO membership is open to any “European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area”. It states that any decision on enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”. .." https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160627_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_...
sjs382 5y ago
Re: Taiwan, via Wikipedia: "Article 6 states that the treaty covers only member states' territories in Europe and North America, Turkey and islands in the North Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer, plus French Algeria. It was the opinion in August 1965 of the US State Department, the US Defense Department and the legal division of NATO that an attack on the U.S. state of Hawaii would not trigger the treaty, but an attack on the other 49 would.[47] The Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla on the North African shore are thus not under NATO protection in spite of Moroccan claims to them. Legal experts have interpreted that other articles could cover the Spanish North African cities but this take has not been tested in practice." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty

ghaff 5y ago

Because all(?) of the NATO members are representative democracies of some form or other. While obviously certain actions can be a domestic political issue (so in that sense citizens are "consulted"), there's no direct citizen vote on things like alliances, treaties, etc. (or many other actions a national government takes).

logifail 5y ago
> there's no direct citizen vote on things like alliances, treaties, etc One could imagine that if your country's citizens will be called upon to go to war to fight to defend a distant "country X", just because your country and "country X" happen to be in an alliance, that citizens informed consent would be desirable and required before signing such a treaty. Despite what your politicians might say, joining an military alliance has a cost, it's not a freebie.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

>bonus Q: Imagine Taiwan were to apply to join NATO... I imagine you would see a very similar response from China, probably a more swift and harsh than that of Russia.

AniseAbyss 5y ago
Most countries don't recognize Taiwan's independence. I'm always amazed people don't know that. Despite CCP's yelling that they want to invade the world has agreed to an awkward but stable status quo.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Perhaps we could invite them to be a 51st US state instead. Unfortunately, I imagine this would upset the awkward but stable status quo, not unlike the upset from Ukraine joining NATO.

belter 5y ago

Another difficulty for Sweden and Finland is that all need to agree. "NATO Enlargement & Open Door" "...NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of the Alliance’s founding document, the North Atlantic Treaty (1949). The Treaty states that NATO membership is open to any “European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area”. It states that any decision on enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”. .." https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160627_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_...

sjs382 5y ago

Re: Taiwan, via Wikipedia: "Article 6 states that the treaty covers only member states' territories in Europe and North America, Turkey and islands in the North Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer, plus French Algeria. It was the opinion in August 1965 of the US State Department, the US Defense Department and the legal division of NATO that an attack on the U.S. state of Hawaii would not trigger the treaty, but an attack on the other 49 would.[47] The Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla on the North African shore are thus not under NATO protection in spite of Moroccan claims to them. Legal experts have interpreted that other articles could cover the Spanish North African cities but this take has not been tested in practice." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty