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> RUS strategy is to flood the zone with conflicting information so as to create a 'wilderness of mirrors', create infighting in the opposition, and/or get peop

by xyzzyz 5y ago

> RUS strategy is to flood the zone with conflicting information so as to create a 'wilderness of mirrors', create infighting in the opposition, and/or get people to give up on finding the truth Indeed, but this is also Ukrainian strategy. It is in Ukrainian interest to push morale-increasing stories. Of course everything Russian media and government say needs to be taken as propaganda, but doing that while taking Ukrainian sides claims as highly accurate, is just wishful thinking.

drran 5y ago
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  What excellent fakes are you talking about? A lot of claims by each side are just that, claims. For example, Ukraine claims to shot down two huge Russian IL-76 planes, but I haven’t seen any photos or videos of these yet, fake or real. In this case, I think we’ll find out if it’s true soon enough. Similarly, Russia claims that the high-rise in Kiev has been hit by Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile. That’s also just a claim, with no evidence as of yet.
  - drran 5y ago
    - dang 5y ago
      You've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. Would you please stop doing that so we don't have to ban you again? It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - drran 5y ago
        @dang, can you take down Russian bots spreading FUD, please?
        dang 5y ago
        We need something objective to go on. Someone else disagreeing with your view is not evidence that they're a bot. The vast majority, in my experience, are simply people with different backgrounds disagreeing with each other for what must in the end be similar reasons. Users are much too quick to assume that someone they don't like on the internet is a bot, spy, shill, astroturfer, foreign agent, you name it. This is pretty much the most common thing people throw at each other in online arguments. That's why we don't allow it here—see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you or anyone thinks they have evidence of abuse, they should send it to hn@ycombinator.com so we can look into it. Plenty of past explanation is at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme.... For example, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 is one in-depth post on the topic. Btw, pointing a finger at others isn't a great way to respond when asked to stop breaking the site guidelines. I know emotions are running high, but that applies to everyone, and unless I'm mistaken you have a history of breaking the site guidelines here and being banned for it, and that tends to lead to getting banned again unless you take conscious steps to fix it. And in case it helps at all, none of that means that I don't feel for your situation.
toss1 5y ago
I never said that one had to take every UKR claim as accurate But I will say that they are likely to be more accurate - after all, the Russians are the undisputed world champions of dezinformatsiya for at least 15 decades; Ukranians are at best their students. And as for who is in the right and who is wrong in these events, it is 100% clear - Putin's govt and military are 100% wrong. He is an autocrat attempting to undermine a neighboring democracy, because the very idea of proper democracy at home, Putin sees as a threat to his power. He is happy to kill and gail opponents, from Navalny, to Magnitski, to Litvenienko, and the list goes on... It is wrong, that is all there is to it. Stop trying to justify it, or play whataboutism games. Have a deep rethink.

by xyzzyz 5y ago

drran 5y ago

xyzzyz 5y ago
What excellent fakes are you talking about? A lot of claims by each side are just that, claims. For example, Ukraine claims to shot down two huge Russian IL-76 planes, but I haven’t seen any photos or videos of these yet, fake or real. In this case, I think we’ll find out if it’s true soon enough. Similarly, Russia claims that the high-rise in Kiev has been hit by Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile. That’s also just a claim, with no evidence as of yet.
- drran 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    You've been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. Would you please stop doing that so we don't have to ban you again? It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - drran 5y ago
      @dang, can you take down Russian bots spreading FUD, please?
      - dang 5y ago
        We need something objective to go on. Someone else disagreeing with your view is not evidence that they're a bot. The vast majority, in my experience, are simply people with different backgrounds disagreeing with each other for what must in the end be similar reasons. Users are much too quick to assume that someone they don't like on the internet is a bot, spy, shill, astroturfer, foreign agent, you name it. This is pretty much the most common thing people throw at each other in online arguments. That's why we don't allow it here—see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you or anyone thinks they have evidence of abuse, they should send it to hn@ycombinator.com so we can look into it. Plenty of past explanation is at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme.... For example, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 is one in-depth post on the topic. Btw, pointing a finger at others isn't a great way to respond when asked to stop breaking the site guidelines. I know emotions are running high, but that applies to everyone, and unless I'm mistaken you have a history of breaking the site guidelines here and being banned for it, and that tends to lead to getting banned again unless you take conscious steps to fix it. And in case it helps at all, none of that means that I don't feel for your situation.

toss1 5y ago

I never said that one had to take every UKR claim as accurate But I will say that they are likely to be more accurate - after all, the Russians are the undisputed world champions of dezinformatsiya for at least 15 decades; Ukranians are at best their students. And as for who is in the right and who is wrong in these events, it is 100% clear - Putin's govt and military are 100% wrong. He is an autocrat attempting to undermine a neighboring democracy, because the very idea of proper democracy at home, Putin sees as a threat to his power. He is happy to kill and gail opponents, from Navalny, to Magnitski, to Litvenienko, and the list goes on... It is wrong, that is all there is to it. Stop trying to justify it, or play whataboutism games. Have a deep rethink.