These are just resource limitations. I already addressed that. If you start out with something where a resource limitation prevents you from doing X, then any k

These are just resource limitations. I already addressed that. If you start out with something where a resource limitation prevents you from doing X, then any kind of statement about Turing completeness inherently only draws a comparison with a Turing machine that has the same resource limitation keeping it from doing X. It doesn't matter if this is sending RGB data to a monitor (which some languages cannot do unless augmented with certain hardware) or computing Kolmogorov complexity (which no language can do in general). A human plus paper and pencil is a different computation than a human without paper and pencil, just in terms of hardware and memory. It also seems like some of you are not computationalists. Anything physical is just the result of a computation, whether you are talking about the chemistry of producing colors on a monitor or adding two numbers by sending electrons through circuits of transistors. The ECT thesis says that anything which can be computed in the real world can be computed efficiently by some Turing machine. This includes anything a brain can do (aided by pen and paper or unaided) and certainly includes anything your graphics driver can do. If Java can't do something that Java + Graphics Card + OS can do, then Java has a more serious resource bound, and all claims of Java's Turing completeness inherently include this resource bound. You guys might like some sections of this research paper: (http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf).