3 ms·

Better insulation alone would solve this problem and then some. I live in London which is not particularly cold, but I haven't turned on my heating in years now

Better insulation alone would solve this problem and then some. I live in London which is not particularly cold, but I haven't turned on my heating in years now. My building is about 15 years old and insulated to more recent standards. There are plenty of other people who live in older houses that unfortunately are not energy efficient at all, so they have to regularly use the heating.

henrikschroder 5y ago
There's a joke in Sweden about English housing, and it goes like this: "Hey, do you know why the English run their water pipes on the outside of their houses?" "No?" "It's so that they can get to them easier when they freeze!" And then everyone laughs. ...and then years later you visit England, find out that it's actually true, and then you cry. It's pretty eye-opening how terrible the insulation standards are outside the Nordics. It's one of those things we take for absolutely granted, and then you realize that absolutely no-one else really does this. This video made the rounds a couple of years ago: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2zi5GKFCf_/ https://www.instagram.com/p/B2zi5GKFCf_/ Everyone from the Nordics commenting on it went "aawwww, how cute!", everyone else went "OMG THE HEATING BILL!!??!??!" No, look at how the snow is piled up against the windows without melting. Those are quadruple-paned insulated panoramic windows. They do not leak heat.
- jopsen 5y ago
  Spot on.. also many Nordic cities also have district heating, which can utilize surplus heat from power production.
  - ed_balls 5y ago
    Connecting district heating is not a good investment anymore (unless it's a building with 20+ flats and you want to save space in the apartments) Triple glazed windows, 25+cm insulation, heat pump + heat recuperation, solar panels and you have a passive home. No need for gas which is a fire hazard.
    - jopsen 5y ago
      Hmm, heat pumps are certainly attractive.. But if you're building a new house, wouldn't you roll in district heating if readily available. Agreed, patching district heating into an old house might be hard/expensive.
      - ed_balls 5y ago
        Depends on the costs. In my location is too expensive for a single house (it cost more that a heap pump with aircon and recuperation) There is also risk for the future. What if there is some corruption and private entity would take over trying to squeeze money from the people cause it's a monopoly?
        jopsen 5y ago
        District heating is heavily regulated here.. I think owned by the consumers. Indeed local regulation for the lot of land I'm on stipulates that district heating must be the primary heat source. This gives it some economies of scale, I'm guessing... But I do wonder if geothermal power will come along to make district heating cheap and renewable.
  - henrikschroder 5y ago
    Right, my Stockholm apartment was built in the 90's, so it's not exactly super-modern, but it still has triple-glaze windows, very well-insulated outer walls, and is connected to Stockholm's district heating system, which generates heat by burning trash. The whole building uses a trickle of heat, and my tiled bathroom is still nice and warm, and I can get scalding hot water from the taps if I want it. There are literally zero drawbacks to the way it's constructed and heated, no compromise needed, so this HN Ask is so weird to me, and it's clear that me and OP live in completely different worlds.
- silvestrov 5y ago
  with insulated houses like this the heat from humans is a problem when having family over. The Nordics have crazy high standards for insulation. We've reached the point where increasing the standards no longer makes sense.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  https://dro.pm/b.mp4/preview https://dro.pm/b.mp4/preview for those not wanting to use facebook (link valid for 18 hours)

henrikschroder 5y ago

There's a joke in Sweden about English housing, and it goes like this: "Hey, do you know why the English run their water pipes on the outside of their houses?" "No?" "It's so that they can get to them easier when they freeze!" And then everyone laughs. ...and then years later you visit England, find out that it's actually true, and then you cry. It's pretty eye-opening how terrible the insulation standards are outside the Nordics. It's one of those things we take for absolutely granted, and then you realize that absolutely no-one else really does this. This video made the rounds a couple of years ago: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2zi5GKFCf_/ https://www.instagram.com/p/B2zi5GKFCf_/ Everyone from the Nordics commenting on it went "aawwww, how cute!", everyone else went "OMG THE HEATING BILL!!??!??!" No, look at how the snow is piled up against the windows without melting. Those are quadruple-paned insulated panoramic windows. They do not leak heat.

jopsen 5y ago
Spot on.. also many Nordic cities also have district heating, which can utilize surplus heat from power production.
- ed_balls 5y ago
  Connecting district heating is not a good investment anymore (unless it's a building with 20+ flats and you want to save space in the apartments) Triple glazed windows, 25+cm insulation, heat pump + heat recuperation, solar panels and you have a passive home. No need for gas which is a fire hazard.
  - jopsen 5y ago
    Hmm, heat pumps are certainly attractive.. But if you're building a new house, wouldn't you roll in district heating if readily available. Agreed, patching district heating into an old house might be hard/expensive.
    - ed_balls 5y ago
      Depends on the costs. In my location is too expensive for a single house (it cost more that a heap pump with aircon and recuperation) There is also risk for the future. What if there is some corruption and private entity would take over trying to squeeze money from the people cause it's a monopoly?
      - jopsen 5y ago
        District heating is heavily regulated here.. I think owned by the consumers. Indeed local regulation for the lot of land I'm on stipulates that district heating must be the primary heat source. This gives it some economies of scale, I'm guessing... But I do wonder if geothermal power will come along to make district heating cheap and renewable.
- henrikschroder 5y ago
  Right, my Stockholm apartment was built in the 90's, so it's not exactly super-modern, but it still has triple-glaze windows, very well-insulated outer walls, and is connected to Stockholm's district heating system, which generates heat by burning trash. The whole building uses a trickle of heat, and my tiled bathroom is still nice and warm, and I can get scalding hot water from the taps if I want it. There are literally zero drawbacks to the way it's constructed and heated, no compromise needed, so this HN Ask is so weird to me, and it's clear that me and OP live in completely different worlds.
silvestrov 5y ago
with insulated houses like this the heat from humans is a problem when having family over. The Nordics have crazy high standards for insulation. We've reached the point where increasing the standards no longer makes sense.
lucb1e 5y ago
https://dro.pm/b.mp4/preview https://dro.pm/b.mp4/preview for those not wanting to use facebook (link valid for 18 hours)