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First off, why not? Why would you doubt that when they're a massive storefront and deal with fraud of all kinds? But also, wouldn't it be fairly easy and bene

by jayd16 5y ago

First off, why not? Why would you doubt that when they're a massive storefront and deal with fraud of all kinds? But also, wouldn't it be fairly easy and beneficial to have this information? Exchanges know what wallets are charged back and fraudulent. Is it not in their interest to work with Steam? Or even, is it not in the exchange's interest to do this analysis and demand the coin from Steam?

gruez 5y ago
> First off, why not? Why would you doubt that when they're a massive storefront and deal with fraud of all kinds? 1. The anti-fraud tech used for credit card fraud (ie. stolen credit cards used for unauthorized transactions) don't really translate well to the fraud described here (ie. stolen cryptocurrency). 2. it makes sense for ecommerence merchants to do anti-fraud stuff, because they're on the hook for fraud. the same does not apply to cryptocurrency transactions. >But also, wouldn't it be fairly easy and beneficial to have this information? Exchanges know what wallets are charged back and fraudulent. 1. I haven't heard of such blacklists being around, especially in 2017 (when steam stopped accepting payments) 2. such blacklists would likely be ineffective, because of mixers and lack of coordination (see previous point) 3. such blacklists threaten the fungibility of bitcoin, which would probably cause backlash from potential customers. >Is it not in their interest to work with Steam? 1. it might be in their interest to work with steam, but not the other way around 2. even though steam might have huge sales volume, it's not going to be the primary route criminals cash out. if you stole tens of thousands of dollars in crypto, I doubt you'll spend a significant portion of that on games. You only have so much time, and games are relatively cheap. Meanwhile localbitcoin has people willing to give you literal cash for a few percentage points cut. There's a reason why all the anti-money laundering regulations target banks and other high cash volume businesses (eg. pawn shops), and not bestbuy or mcdonalds. >Or even, is it not in the exchange's interest to do this analysis and demand the coin from Steam? If [random exchange] messaged me and said that some coins I hold were 10% tainted from 10 transactions ago, and wanted me to return them, I'd tell them to fuck off.
- jayd16 5y ago
  >blacklists They wouldn't be blacklists. You only learn after the fact so its more about the analytics. >I'd tell them to fuck off. Well that's nice but if you get paid with stolen money, you don't just get to keep the money and tell them to fuck off. Steam would be liable to return the funds.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >They wouldn't be blacklists. You only learn after the fact so its more about the analytics. I mean, that goes back to my original question, why would they do this? Does bestbuy run analytics on the cash they receive to see how much % of their cash purchases were "fraudulent"? >Well that's nice but if you get paid with stolen money, you don't just get to keep the money and tell them to fuck off. Steam would be liable to return the funds. IANAL, but I thought this only applied to stolen goods, not cash? I heard of authorities seizing cash when they raid a drug house, but not randomly seizing people's cash because they happened to carry a bill that was involved in a bank robbery.
    - squeaky-clean 5y ago
      > Does bestbuy run analytics on the cash they receive to see how much % of their cash purchases were "fraudulent"? Credit card companies do, yes.
      - gruez 5y ago
        Again, that's because credit card companies and/or merchants eat the cost of fraud. That's not the case with cash. The FBI isn't going to be raiding bestbuy's stores looking for stolen bills.
        jayd16 5y ago
        In this case, it's still private self interest in the exact same way. If a stolen credit card is used to buy Bitcoin, then Bitcoin is used in Steam, who eats the fraud and why would they not push against the others for restitution if it's all trackable?

by jayd16 5y ago

gruez 5y ago

> First off, why not? Why would you doubt that when they're a massive storefront and deal with fraud of all kinds? 1. The anti-fraud tech used for credit card fraud (ie. stolen credit cards used for unauthorized transactions) don't really translate well to the fraud described here (ie. stolen cryptocurrency). 2. it makes sense for ecommerence merchants to do anti-fraud stuff, because they're on the hook for fraud. the same does not apply to cryptocurrency transactions. >But also, wouldn't it be fairly easy and beneficial to have this information? Exchanges know what wallets are charged back and fraudulent. 1. I haven't heard of such blacklists being around, especially in 2017 (when steam stopped accepting payments) 2. such blacklists would likely be ineffective, because of mixers and lack of coordination (see previous point) 3. such blacklists threaten the fungibility of bitcoin, which would probably cause backlash from potential customers. >Is it not in their interest to work with Steam? 1. it might be in their interest to work with steam, but not the other way around 2. even though steam might have huge sales volume, it's not going to be the primary route criminals cash out. if you stole tens of thousands of dollars in crypto, I doubt you'll spend a significant portion of that on games. You only have so much time, and games are relatively cheap. Meanwhile localbitcoin has people willing to give you literal cash for a few percentage points cut. There's a reason why all the anti-money laundering regulations target banks and other high cash volume businesses (eg. pawn shops), and not bestbuy or mcdonalds. >Or even, is it not in the exchange's interest to do this analysis and demand the coin from Steam? If [random exchange] messaged me and said that some coins I hold were 10% tainted from 10 transactions ago, and wanted me to return them, I'd tell them to fuck off.

jayd16 5y ago
>blacklists They wouldn't be blacklists. You only learn after the fact so its more about the analytics. >I'd tell them to fuck off. Well that's nice but if you get paid with stolen money, you don't just get to keep the money and tell them to fuck off. Steam would be liable to return the funds.
- gruez 5y ago
  >They wouldn't be blacklists. You only learn after the fact so its more about the analytics. I mean, that goes back to my original question, why would they do this? Does bestbuy run analytics on the cash they receive to see how much % of their cash purchases were "fraudulent"? >Well that's nice but if you get paid with stolen money, you don't just get to keep the money and tell them to fuck off. Steam would be liable to return the funds. IANAL, but I thought this only applied to stolen goods, not cash? I heard of authorities seizing cash when they raid a drug house, but not randomly seizing people's cash because they happened to carry a bill that was involved in a bank robbery.
  - squeaky-clean 5y ago
    > Does bestbuy run analytics on the cash they receive to see how much % of their cash purchases were "fraudulent"? Credit card companies do, yes.
    - gruez 5y ago
      Again, that's because credit card companies and/or merchants eat the cost of fraud. That's not the case with cash. The FBI isn't going to be raiding bestbuy's stores looking for stolen bills.
      - jayd16 5y ago
        In this case, it's still private self interest in the exact same way. If a stolen credit card is used to buy Bitcoin, then Bitcoin is used in Steam, who eats the fraud and why would they not push against the others for restitution if it's all trackable?