5 ms·

I think it's quite silly to turn off nuclear power plants, rely on Russian gas, and sit in the cold when we could simply not do that.

by blfr 5y ago

asimops 5y ago
How do I drive my gas boiler with nuclear power?
- justahuman74 5y ago
  You'd have to purchase an electric one
- PaywallBuster 5y ago
  You don't have too If nuclear is still working, demand for gas will be much lower hence lowering the dependency on Russia (and while Russia is the biggest source, there's alternatives, and more will come up due to the conflict)
  - danhor 5y ago
    If my calculations are correct, only ~21% of gas used in europe is used for electricity, so halving the dependency. If combined power and heat plants can't be shut down (because they can't be replaced that based and still need to produce heat), this results in 12.6% of gas used only in electricity only power plants. The latter isn't really that useful. Source for all numbers: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/sankey/energy/sankey.html?geos=EU27_2020&year=2020&unit=TJ&fuels=TOTAL&highlight=_&nodeDisagg=1111111111111&flowDisagg=true&translateX=-1694.6872781131412&translateY=-947.2658869554716&scale=2.376781091900079&language=EN https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/sankey/energy/sankey.htm... 16.03e6 TJ gas total 2.03e6 TJ used for electricity only 2.30e6 TJ used for electricity & heat, 60% of resulting (usable) energy is electricity -> 1.37TJ -> 3.40TJ of gas used for electricity, around 21%
    - panick21_ 5y ago
      As far as I know France uses mostly electrical heating and most of that is powered by nuclear. Had other industrial nations acted like France in the 70s our problems, health wise, climate change wise and geopolitical would be about 1000x better.
      - danhor 5y ago
        France uses a lot more electrical heating than neighbouring countries, but gas (35%) and oil (10%) combined are more than their electrical heating (41%). Shutting of a large part of gas supplies would still be a problem. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1086485/types-heater-housing-main-france/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1086485/types-heater-hou...
  - markvdb 5y ago
    Two things: - Less uranium is being produced than being consumed. - The Russian sphere of influence is responsible for most uranium exports by far.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  With the gas you save from not needing to use it to run your fridge and other appliances.
- opensores 5y ago
  you get it replaced with an electric heat pump tied in to ground heat-mass.
  - sealeck 5y ago
    And what are the odds this will be done before next winter?
    - yywwbbn 5y ago
      What are the odds that enough nuclear plants for this will be opened before next winter. Maybe if 0% of imported gas was used for electricity generation non Russian sources would be sufficient for heating (just guessing)
      - danhor 5y ago
        No. Russia supplies around 47% of imported gas, around 41% of total gas. Shutting down only electricity power plants reduces gas usage by 12%. Not using it for electricity reduces it ~21% (going to be hard, because of combined electricity & heat plants). (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30480589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30480589, all numbers for EU)
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    I've not researched this - only read reports on the MSM - that installing an electric heat pump in the UK is thousands of pounds. If that's true then it's completely unrealistic for heat pumps to become mainstream anytime soon. We need to find alternative sources of natural gas, fast. Fracking may be a good choice at this point in time.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      The UK government is just about to subsidize it by thousands of pounds: "Households in England and Wales to be offered new £5,000 Government grant from April 2022 to help replace gas boilers with heat pumps." Which is a long term win, as they won't need to import as much fossil fuels, and it helps meet climate targets. Any impact on Putin is merely a bonus.
- speed_spread 5y ago
  Easy: - Raise tsunami or hire incredibly incompetent operators to create nuclear reactor incident - Wait for reactor containment vessel to crack open - Collect hydrogen produced from hydrolysis and send it down the gas pipes
  - Aldo_MX 5y ago
    I think the sarcasm was unnecessary
    - speed_spread 5y ago
      It's not about the sarcasm, it's about the engineering challenge.
- drran 5y ago
  You need a source of slow neutrons...
IdontRememberIt 5y ago
Not for everybody... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Business_activities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Business...
dane-pgp 5y ago
Out of interest, how many nuclear power plants were turned off in Europe (net of replacements) since Russia invaded Ukraine? For context[0], in 2013 (the year before Russia seized Crimea), Germany generated about 100 TWh of electricity from nuclear energy, and last year it was about 70 TWh. In that time, renewables have nearly doubled, from about 150 TWh to 240 TWh. Of course, annualised figures don't account for the fact that there is less solar potential (and more heating demand) in the winter, but if the cost of importing non-Russian gas is cheaper than the cost of replacing ageing nuclear power stations or extending their design life, then the only concern is how much you are slowing down the race to net zero. [0] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/fig2a-gross-power-production-germany-1990-2021-source.png?itok=WF_6jBAP https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...
- pmontra 5y ago
  As a data point, Italy turned off all its 4 (four) nuclear power plants following to a referendum in the late 80s, after Chernobyl.
  - lucb1e 5y ago
    > 4 (four) I mostly see this type of writing in formal settings like contracts, or in cheques I think it's also done (but I've never seen a cheque so not sure). Now I have a chance to ask! Why do you write the same number twice? I always assumed it was to make reading easier with large numbers (not having to count groups of zeroes) or prevent writing errors (in formal contracts), but this is not a large number and HN has an edit system.
    - jimbobimbo 5y ago
      Not OP, but I'd write it like that for rhetorical effect. It becomes even more dramatic if written as "4 (four!)".
    - pmontra 5y ago
      To make sure nobody thinks it's a typo.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

I think it's quite silly to turn off nuclear power plants, rely on Russian gas, and sit in the cold when we could simply not do that.

by blfr 5y ago

I think it's quite silly to turn off nuclear power plants, rely on Russian gas, and sit in the cold when we could simply not do that.

asimops 5y ago

How do I drive my gas boiler with nuclear power?

justahuman74 5y ago
You'd have to purchase an electric one
PaywallBuster 5y ago
You don't have too If nuclear is still working, demand for gas will be much lower hence lowering the dependency on Russia (and while Russia is the biggest source, there's alternatives, and more will come up due to the conflict)
- danhor 5y ago
  If my calculations are correct, only ~21% of gas used in europe is used for electricity, so halving the dependency. If combined power and heat plants can't be shut down (because they can't be replaced that based and still need to produce heat), this results in 12.6% of gas used only in electricity only power plants. The latter isn't really that useful. Source for all numbers: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/sankey/energy/sankey.html?geos=EU27_2020&year=2020&unit=TJ&fuels=TOTAL&highlight=_&nodeDisagg=1111111111111&flowDisagg=true&translateX=-1694.6872781131412&translateY=-947.2658869554716&scale=2.376781091900079&language=EN https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/sankey/energy/sankey.htm... 16.03e6 TJ gas total 2.03e6 TJ used for electricity only 2.30e6 TJ used for electricity & heat, 60% of resulting (usable) energy is electricity -> 1.37TJ -> 3.40TJ of gas used for electricity, around 21%
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    As far as I know France uses mostly electrical heating and most of that is powered by nuclear. Had other industrial nations acted like France in the 70s our problems, health wise, climate change wise and geopolitical would be about 1000x better.
    - danhor 5y ago
      France uses a lot more electrical heating than neighbouring countries, but gas (35%) and oil (10%) combined are more than their electrical heating (41%). Shutting of a large part of gas supplies would still be a problem. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1086485/types-heater-housing-main-france/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1086485/types-heater-hou...
- markvdb 5y ago
  Two things: - Less uranium is being produced than being consumed. - The Russian sphere of influence is responsible for most uranium exports by far.
renewiltord 5y ago
With the gas you save from not needing to use it to run your fridge and other appliances.
opensores 5y ago
you get it replaced with an electric heat pump tied in to ground heat-mass.
- sealeck 5y ago
  And what are the odds this will be done before next winter?
  - yywwbbn 5y ago
    What are the odds that enough nuclear plants for this will be opened before next winter. Maybe if 0% of imported gas was used for electricity generation non Russian sources would be sufficient for heating (just guessing)
    - danhor 5y ago
      No. Russia supplies around 47% of imported gas, around 41% of total gas. Shutting down only electricity power plants reduces gas usage by 12%. Not using it for electricity reduces it ~21% (going to be hard, because of combined electricity & heat plants). (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30480589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30480589, all numbers for EU)
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  I've not researched this - only read reports on the MSM - that installing an electric heat pump in the UK is thousands of pounds. If that's true then it's completely unrealistic for heat pumps to become mainstream anytime soon. We need to find alternative sources of natural gas, fast. Fracking may be a good choice at this point in time.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    The UK government is just about to subsidize it by thousands of pounds: "Households in England and Wales to be offered new £5,000 Government grant from April 2022 to help replace gas boilers with heat pumps." Which is a long term win, as they won't need to import as much fossil fuels, and it helps meet climate targets. Any impact on Putin is merely a bonus.
speed_spread 5y ago
Easy: - Raise tsunami or hire incredibly incompetent operators to create nuclear reactor incident - Wait for reactor containment vessel to crack open - Collect hydrogen produced from hydrolysis and send it down the gas pipes
- Aldo_MX 5y ago
  I think the sarcasm was unnecessary
  - speed_spread 5y ago
    It's not about the sarcasm, it's about the engineering challenge.
drran 5y ago
You need a source of slow neutrons...

IdontRememberIt 5y ago

Not for everybody... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Business_activities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Business...

dane-pgp 5y ago

Out of interest, how many nuclear power plants were turned off in Europe (net of replacements) since Russia invaded Ukraine? For context[0], in 2013 (the year before Russia seized Crimea), Germany generated about 100 TWh of electricity from nuclear energy, and last year it was about 70 TWh. In that time, renewables have nearly doubled, from about 150 TWh to 240 TWh. Of course, annualised figures don't account for the fact that there is less solar potential (and more heating demand) in the winter, but if the cost of importing non-Russian gas is cheaper than the cost of replacing ageing nuclear power stations or extending their design life, then the only concern is how much you are slowing down the race to net zero. [0] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/fig2a-gross-power-production-germany-1990-2021-source.png?itok=WF_6jBAP https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...

pmontra 5y ago
As a data point, Italy turned off all its 4 (four) nuclear power plants following to a referendum in the late 80s, after Chernobyl.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  > 4 (four) I mostly see this type of writing in formal settings like contracts, or in cheques I think it's also done (but I've never seen a cheque so not sure). Now I have a chance to ask! Why do you write the same number twice? I always assumed it was to make reading easier with large numbers (not having to count groups of zeroes) or prevent writing errors (in formal contracts), but this is not a large number and HN has an edit system.
  - jimbobimbo 5y ago
    Not OP, but I'd write it like that for rhetorical effect. It becomes even more dramatic if written as "4 (four!)".
  - pmontra 5y ago
    To make sure nobody thinks it's a typo.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]