5 ms·

Yikes. I remember when my dad bought the first fly-by-wire car and even back then I was kinda spooked by it but accepted that adults knew what they were doing.

Yikes. I remember when my dad bought the first fly-by-wire car and even back then I was kinda spooked by it but accepted that adults knew what they were doing. The funny thing is that our next door neighbour bought the same car and the computer saved his life when a semi-transport truck merged into him and it took over the wheel. I'm still on team "put computers into cars" for the long term benefit of ending routine automotive collisions but the medium term is frightening.

jacquesm 5y ago
If not for many years of pingpong I probably would have smashed into a bridge support. Crap car. The situation is a bridge with two steel supports rising up with a 2 ton weight on top to lift the bridge, apparently the radar return of the posts is such that the radar interprets it as an imminent frontal collision if you pass between the two posts. And then immediately hits the brakes, hard. Second time was in a bend, with a big sign on the far side of the bend (me on the inner lane). Same stuff. If there had been oncoming traffic I would have certainly hit it because the car became uncontrollable instantly.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  Wow that is bonkers. Do you think Musk is right about the audiovisual-only approach to self-driving automotives? I must say I rarely disagree with his thinking when it comes to physics and computer science, but that was one of the few times I thought he was wrong and I'm still not sure, but your story does make for a compelling piece of evidence.
  - mjevans 5y ago
    If we had Scifi style millimeter wave radar (I'm thinking 'Snow Crash' (book) style stuff) that gave the computer a surface shape and 'signature' model to think about? That'd probably be the safest since it's better than human vision ever could be, though it'd still be tough since humans are analog supercomputers that are well versed in traversing 3.5 dimensions of space and the advanced memory and hazard prediction elements really help. Vision based computer systems really need the persistence and object recognition factors. A strong specialized faked intelligence might be sufficient, more so if it's less distracted than humans.
    - the__alchemist 5y ago
      I'd love to see something like Knight Visions. Even if it were just an IR overlay, in a way that looked natural, and was smaller/lighter/better FOV than traditional NVGs. The mm-wave part would be great too!
- hammock 5y ago
  How did ping pong save you?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Reflexes.
- andi999 5y ago
  What I dont understand, since these cars use ABS, shouldnt you always be able to steer it (even if it fully breaks).
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    The car was thrown into a spin the first time because it was on a bridge with a very uneven and slippery surface. Really, I'm sure it was 'the perfect storm' for that particular emergency braking system but I would rather trust myself than to gamble on tech that fails twice within a year for such a critical function. There isn't a whole lot of room on those bridges for evasive maneuvers either.
wyldfire 5y ago
The term "fly by wire" refers to the lack of mechanical linkage between the operator controls and the flight control surfaces. Cars have gone through similar design changes, yes. The car accelerator no longer opens valves/injectors for the gasoline to enter combustion chambers. In both cases - aircraft and cars - the primary goal was reducing weight. But this term is not intended to refer to driver-assistance features. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire
- kube-system 5y ago
  > The car accelerator no longer opens valves/injectors for the gasoline to enter combustion chambers. The part you're thinking of is the throttle (which is why the accelerator pedal is sometimes called the throttle pedal), which controls the flow of air into the engine. The flow of gasoline has always been automated as a derived value from this (and often, other factors) -- even when engines were entirely mechanical; this was the function of the carburetor.
  - sidewndr46 5y ago
    That's not universally true for internal combustion engines. Many old diesels had a "rack" that was tied to a system of levers. Each lever controlled a single fuel injector. The throttle cable was tied to this rack.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      That’s good context, but I did specify gasoline.
    - twofornone 5y ago
      Because diesels (even modern) don't use throttle plates. They control power entirely through fuel metering, as predetonation is not an issue given the the more robust cylinder design and nature of diesel fuel. Some diesels use so called J-brakes which effectively function as throttle plates to induce engine braking, but they are exclusively for slowing down the vehicle.

jacquesm 5y ago

If not for many years of pingpong I probably would have smashed into a bridge support. Crap car. The situation is a bridge with two steel supports rising up with a 2 ton weight on top to lift the bridge, apparently the radar return of the posts is such that the radar interprets it as an imminent frontal collision if you pass between the two posts. And then immediately hits the brakes, hard. Second time was in a bend, with a big sign on the far side of the bend (me on the inner lane). Same stuff. If there had been oncoming traffic I would have certainly hit it because the car became uncontrollable instantly.

3pt14159 5y ago
Wow that is bonkers. Do you think Musk is right about the audiovisual-only approach to self-driving automotives? I must say I rarely disagree with his thinking when it comes to physics and computer science, but that was one of the few times I thought he was wrong and I'm still not sure, but your story does make for a compelling piece of evidence.
- mjevans 5y ago
  If we had Scifi style millimeter wave radar (I'm thinking 'Snow Crash' (book) style stuff) that gave the computer a surface shape and 'signature' model to think about? That'd probably be the safest since it's better than human vision ever could be, though it'd still be tough since humans are analog supercomputers that are well versed in traversing 3.5 dimensions of space and the advanced memory and hazard prediction elements really help. Vision based computer systems really need the persistence and object recognition factors. A strong specialized faked intelligence might be sufficient, more so if it's less distracted than humans.
  - the__alchemist 5y ago
    I'd love to see something like Knight Visions. Even if it were just an IR overlay, in a way that looked natural, and was smaller/lighter/better FOV than traditional NVGs. The mm-wave part would be great too!
hammock 5y ago
How did ping pong save you?
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Reflexes.
andi999 5y ago
What I dont understand, since these cars use ABS, shouldnt you always be able to steer it (even if it fully breaks).
- jacquesm 5y ago
  The car was thrown into a spin the first time because it was on a bridge with a very uneven and slippery surface. Really, I'm sure it was 'the perfect storm' for that particular emergency braking system but I would rather trust myself than to gamble on tech that fails twice within a year for such a critical function. There isn't a whole lot of room on those bridges for evasive maneuvers either.

wyldfire 5y ago

The term "fly by wire" refers to the lack of mechanical linkage between the operator controls and the flight control surfaces. Cars have gone through similar design changes, yes. The car accelerator no longer opens valves/injectors for the gasoline to enter combustion chambers. In both cases - aircraft and cars - the primary goal was reducing weight. But this term is not intended to refer to driver-assistance features. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire

kube-system 5y ago
> The car accelerator no longer opens valves/injectors for the gasoline to enter combustion chambers. The part you're thinking of is the throttle (which is why the accelerator pedal is sometimes called the throttle pedal), which controls the flow of air into the engine. The flow of gasoline has always been automated as a derived value from this (and often, other factors) -- even when engines were entirely mechanical; this was the function of the carburetor.
- sidewndr46 5y ago
  That's not universally true for internal combustion engines. Many old diesels had a "rack" that was tied to a system of levers. Each lever controlled a single fuel injector. The throttle cable was tied to this rack.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    That’s good context, but I did specify gasoline.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    Because diesels (even modern) don't use throttle plates. They control power entirely through fuel metering, as predetonation is not an issue given the the more robust cylinder design and nature of diesel fuel. Some diesels use so called J-brakes which effectively function as throttle plates to induce engine braking, but they are exclusively for slowing down the vehicle.