3 ms·

Yes, I actually feel quite bad for the Russian soldiers. Russians view Ukrainians as, well, family. So, to be told that you are going in to kick a few Nazi asse

Yes, I actually feel quite bad for the Russian soldiers. Russians view Ukrainians as, well, family. So, to be told that you are going in to kick a few Nazi asses and you will be welcomed as liberators, and then be faced with the reality that your "brothers" are fighting tooth and nail against you must be quite jarring. As you say, losses are mounting, and eventually, it will be noticed. This morning, I saw that Zelensky has requested that the Red Cross help repatriate the bodies of the Russian soldiers. He framed it as a humanitarian act, but doubtlessly, he wants the Russians to see their war dead coming home.

jacquesm 5y ago
I feel bad for the Ukrainian soldiers. The Russian ones are well aware that they are in a war of aggression, and they have the option to desert.
- goodcanadian 5y ago
  I don't mean to imply that I don't have the utmost sympathy for the Ukrainians . . . The Russians were not told that it was a war of aggression; many probably did not realise it until they got there. Is desertion truly a reasonable option? Where are they going to go?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > Is desertion truly a reasonable option? Likely the orders will be to shoot deserters. Even so the first desertions have already happened. > Where are they going to go? POW separate from the other POWs.
    - goodcanadian 5y ago
      And then what? They can never go home again. You said, yourself, that they are "scared kids." Edit: I have no doubt that there have been some desertions and I am sure that there will be more, but I am not sure that it is reasonable to expect that any given "scared kid" will do so even if they believe they are on the wrong side.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        > They can never go home again. Beats being buried.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  > and they have the option to desert. sadly it's a lot more nuanced :( -- (apologies for x-posting this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30477618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30477618) -- Russia had some trouble[1] recruiting for this mission. Pay is a joke, and they had to hire a bunch of aging convicts with nowhere else to go: >> Two Meduza sources referred to the formations taking shape in the “people’s republics” as “Dirlewanger brigades,” because they actively enlist former inmates. “Those [joining up] in Luhansk were in prison,” said an individual personally acquainted with members of the new unit. “And then suddenly they turned up in this detachment. They’re real criminals, and besides that they’re no spring chickens [aged 45 and up].” it gets worse: >> Indeed, Meduza’s sources believe that those who accepted the recruiters’ offers likely have a rather low level of training. “All the rest are [on combat trips] in Africa or in the sands [Syria],” explained a Russian security agency veteran familiar with the recruitment campaign. “Nobody’s raring to go to the ‘field of spoil tips’ [the Donbas].” >> “They just don’t want to go there, because there’s a regular army [the Ukrainian Armed Forces]: it’s difficult to fight against it,” said a former Wagner Group mercenary. “If there’s a regular army, there will be big losses.” There is another[2] recent article that suggests Russians aren't going to Donbas/Luhansk voluntarily. If so it could explain the losses and shocking morale. ________ [1] A road to nowhere Russian recruiters are mobilizing mercenaries for a ‘trip to the Donbas.’ What they’re expected to do there remains unclear. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere [2] ‘I’m panicking — where is my child?’ Conscript soldiers are being sent to fight against Ukraine, their relatives say. Here’s what their families told Meduza. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-is-my-child https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-...
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    And then there is the Chechens.

jacquesm 5y ago

I feel bad for the Ukrainian soldiers. The Russian ones are well aware that they are in a war of aggression, and they have the option to desert.

goodcanadian 5y ago
I don't mean to imply that I don't have the utmost sympathy for the Ukrainians . . . The Russians were not told that it was a war of aggression; many probably did not realise it until they got there. Is desertion truly a reasonable option? Where are they going to go?
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > Is desertion truly a reasonable option? Likely the orders will be to shoot deserters. Even so the first desertions have already happened. > Where are they going to go? POW separate from the other POWs.
  - goodcanadian 5y ago
    And then what? They can never go home again. You said, yourself, that they are "scared kids." Edit: I have no doubt that there have been some desertions and I am sure that there will be more, but I am not sure that it is reasonable to expect that any given "scared kid" will do so even if they believe they are on the wrong side.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      > They can never go home again. Beats being buried.
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
> and they have the option to desert. sadly it's a lot more nuanced :( -- (apologies for x-posting this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30477618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30477618) -- Russia had some trouble[1] recruiting for this mission. Pay is a joke, and they had to hire a bunch of aging convicts with nowhere else to go: >> Two Meduza sources referred to the formations taking shape in the “people’s republics” as “Dirlewanger brigades,” because they actively enlist former inmates. “Those [joining up] in Luhansk were in prison,” said an individual personally acquainted with members of the new unit. “And then suddenly they turned up in this detachment. They’re real criminals, and besides that they’re no spring chickens [aged 45 and up].” it gets worse: >> Indeed, Meduza’s sources believe that those who accepted the recruiters’ offers likely have a rather low level of training. “All the rest are [on combat trips] in Africa or in the sands [Syria],” explained a Russian security agency veteran familiar with the recruitment campaign. “Nobody’s raring to go to the ‘field of spoil tips’ [the Donbas].” >> “They just don’t want to go there, because there’s a regular army [the Ukrainian Armed Forces]: it’s difficult to fight against it,” said a former Wagner Group mercenary. “If there’s a regular army, there will be big losses.” There is another[2] recent article that suggests Russians aren't going to Donbas/Luhansk voluntarily. If so it could explain the losses and shocking morale. ________ [1] A road to nowhere Russian recruiters are mobilizing mercenaries for a ‘trip to the Donbas.’ What they’re expected to do there remains unclear. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/12/23/a-road-to-nowhere [2] ‘I’m panicking — where is my child?’ Conscript soldiers are being sent to fight against Ukraine, their relatives say. Here’s what their families told Meduza. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-is-my-child https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/02/26/i-m-panicking-where-...
- jacquesm 5y ago
  And then there is the Chechens.