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> But the 50k they did commit seem to have achieved nothing. A bit far-fetched I admit, but thinking outside the box, perhaps those on the Russian side of the

> But the 50k they did commit seem to have achieved nothing. A bit far-fetched I admit, but thinking outside the box, perhaps those on the Russian side of the front line don't really fancy being involved in this ? In other words, "we need to make some noise because the boss is watching" but really the commitment isn't there. Reason I say that is perhaps its an extension of what we saw on that infamous broadcast where Putin was seeking approval from his cabinet but some of them were struggling to find a way to disagree without actually saying it. > It really makes you question whether Russia's reputation is well-earned. But this is also a possibility of course. Who knows. Its impossible to second-guess Putin.

brabel 5y ago
> perhaps those on the Russian side of the front line don't really fancy being involved in this ? I think that's definitely the case, Russians are very close to Ukrainians culturally and ethnically. They were on the same side on several wars. I think this may explain why things are not going full on bloodthirsty kill-everything-that-moves yet... but just wait until coffins start piling up on the hangar. Seeing your mates being killed has a way to make you de-humanize and hate the other side, no matter who they are. That's how you end up with entire cities bombed to the ground in later stages of a war... I don't think any war starts that way, that's how it usually ends though. Let's hope they'll find a way to stop this in time.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  In another thread, commenters were remarking about how ineffectual protests by the Russian people would be on account of Putin not caring about their opinions. Whether or not that’s true, I wonder if the Russian people could shame their soldiers into a degree of ineffectiveness (“throwing the game”).
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    No, but upper echelon is well-versed in money and power. If it seems like Putin is losing the game, their opinion could change the power structure. That is not automatically a good thing by the way. There is a reason 'devil known' is a phrase.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Robert Axelrod's "evolution of co-operation" book on Game Theory discusses instances of German and Allied trench forces in WWI firing their artillery at the same time and place each day so it looks and sounds like a war is happening but the poor schmucks on the front line aren't needlessly murdering each other. It supposses they can organize this without any explicit communication as it's fairly obvious when someone is trying to kill you. There's also a long history of people in wars not even firing their weapons covered in the book "On Killing". People generally don't want to needlessly kill other human beings and a big part of army training and tactics is to work around this basic human instinct e.g. making you fight to keep your small group of friends alive, rather than for the financial benefit of some oligarch hundreds of miles away in safety.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  > People generally don't want to needlessly kill other human beings and a big part of army training and tactics is to work around this basic human instinct e I wonder if that's the actual source of the purported necessary 3:1 attacker to defender ratio in an insurgency. You have three times as many people willing to kill to defend their home as to invade, so you need more people to get the same number of shooters.

brabel 5y ago

> perhaps those on the Russian side of the front line don't really fancy being involved in this ? I think that's definitely the case, Russians are very close to Ukrainians culturally and ethnically. They were on the same side on several wars. I think this may explain why things are not going full on bloodthirsty kill-everything-that-moves yet... but just wait until coffins start piling up on the hangar. Seeing your mates being killed has a way to make you de-humanize and hate the other side, no matter who they are. That's how you end up with entire cities bombed to the ground in later stages of a war... I don't think any war starts that way, that's how it usually ends though. Let's hope they'll find a way to stop this in time.

throwaway894345 5y ago
In another thread, commenters were remarking about how ineffectual protests by the Russian people would be on account of Putin not caring about their opinions. Whether or not that’s true, I wonder if the Russian people could shame their soldiers into a degree of ineffectiveness (“throwing the game”).
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  No, but upper echelon is well-versed in money and power. If it seems like Putin is losing the game, their opinion could change the power structure. That is not automatically a good thing by the way. There is a reason 'devil known' is a phrase.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Robert Axelrod's "evolution of co-operation" book on Game Theory discusses instances of German and Allied trench forces in WWI firing their artillery at the same time and place each day so it looks and sounds like a war is happening but the poor schmucks on the front line aren't needlessly murdering each other. It supposses they can organize this without any explicit communication as it's fairly obvious when someone is trying to kill you. There's also a long history of people in wars not even firing their weapons covered in the book "On Killing". People generally don't want to needlessly kill other human beings and a big part of army training and tactics is to work around this basic human instinct e.g. making you fight to keep your small group of friends alive, rather than for the financial benefit of some oligarch hundreds of miles away in safety.

HWR_14 5y ago
> People generally don't want to needlessly kill other human beings and a big part of army training and tactics is to work around this basic human instinct e I wonder if that's the actual source of the purported necessary 3:1 attacker to defender ratio in an insurgency. You have three times as many people willing to kill to defend their home as to invade, so you need more people to get the same number of shooters.