4 ms·

"Well-integrated" isn't quite right. Slavic minorities are treated horribly by most Western Europeans (and Americans too). Historically, you'd go West, make mon

by blagie 5y ago

"Well-integrated" isn't quite right. Slavic minorities are treated horribly by most Western Europeans (and Americans too). Historically, you'd go West, make money, and come back. Or if your country was bad enough, you'd go West, accept mistreatment, and stay. They're well-integrated in the sense of "keeping your head down and not causing any trouble." If you cause trouble, you're liable to be deported, lose your job, or have other consequences. Tolerance for foreigners has gone down in the past two decades by quite a lot. There's a perception the current culture wars have helped, but for most immigrants, they've done the opposite.

refurb 5y ago
Slavs are horribly treated in the Americas? “Slavs” is a European term. I worked with a bunch of Eastern Europeans in Canada and everyone is like “oh, that’s the former communist countries”. The reputation of “slavs” in Europe does not carry to the Americas. They’re just “europeans” to us. I used to chuckle s bit when Europeans would say “oh im from the Lorraine region” or “my ancestors were from Prussia”. I’m like “mother f’er nobody gives a shit, here you’re just white”.
- blagie 5y ago
  I live in "the Americas." The discrimination isn't based on an abstract ethnicity. If you say you're Ukrainian, Russian, or Belarussian, no one will care. The discrimination is based on culture, communication style, accents, and a slew of other things. Next time you're watching your favorite TV show, have a look at the person with the Slavic accent, and see what stereotype they play. Are they the evil villain? The awkward nerdy pervert? The village crazy? Pay attention for a few months. In my experience, 100% of the portrayals are based on stereotypes. Those stereotypes show up in schools, workplaces, and courts.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Maybe, just maybe the Russian accent, but Yakov Smirnoff was universally loved, so it’s not like Eastern European = evil. I would agree that in general “foreign accent” had certain connotations, but I would challenge any average North American to identify a Russian vs Polish vs Yugoslavian accent. And maybe my take is because I’m from a part of North American that was pretty much settled by Eastern Europeans? I mean they were most of the farmers back in the early 1900’s.
    - blagie 5y ago
      No, it's not Eastern European == evil. The most common connotation is creepy and socially awkward. Evil comes up too, but it's a runner-up. It's never /normal/, though. When was the last time you saw a normal person on TV, who just happened to be Eastern European? The SNL episode this weekend, talking about Ukraine, went with the Eastern European prostitute stereotype. It's worth thinking about what Yakov Smirnoff was loved for. The black actors in minstrel show were often beloved too. So was Aunt Jemima. CBS just called us "relatively civilized" and "relatively European." Everyone picked up on the anti-Muslim racism, but few noticed that Eastern Europeans took a middle rung. More human than the Middle East, but less human than Europe. https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/1497607326487826435 https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/1497607326487826435
newby 5y ago
> "Well-integrated" isn't quite right. Slavic minorities are treated horribly by most Western Europeans (and Americans too). Historically, you'd go West, make money, and come back. Or if your country was bad enough, you'd go West, accept mistreatment, and stay. That does not ring true at all. I am one of the slavic minority who lived in UK for 2,5 years and I do not remember a single instance of being treated poorly for being slavic. And I have not heard anything like that from any of my friends (and I believe I would know - people talk about these things). Sure, I went West, made some money and returned to my country. But not because I was treated poorly - many people have this plan from the beginning: you go to UK, improve your English, gain a lot of experience, make money and use those to jumpstart your career after you return.

by blagie 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

Slavs are horribly treated in the Americas? “Slavs” is a European term. I worked with a bunch of Eastern Europeans in Canada and everyone is like “oh, that’s the former communist countries”. The reputation of “slavs” in Europe does not carry to the Americas. They’re just “europeans” to us. I used to chuckle s bit when Europeans would say “oh im from the Lorraine region” or “my ancestors were from Prussia”. I’m like “mother f’er nobody gives a shit, here you’re just white”.

blagie 5y ago
I live in "the Americas." The discrimination isn't based on an abstract ethnicity. If you say you're Ukrainian, Russian, or Belarussian, no one will care. The discrimination is based on culture, communication style, accents, and a slew of other things. Next time you're watching your favorite TV show, have a look at the person with the Slavic accent, and see what stereotype they play. Are they the evil villain? The awkward nerdy pervert? The village crazy? Pay attention for a few months. In my experience, 100% of the portrayals are based on stereotypes. Those stereotypes show up in schools, workplaces, and courts.
- refurb 5y ago
  Maybe, just maybe the Russian accent, but Yakov Smirnoff was universally loved, so it’s not like Eastern European = evil. I would agree that in general “foreign accent” had certain connotations, but I would challenge any average North American to identify a Russian vs Polish vs Yugoslavian accent. And maybe my take is because I’m from a part of North American that was pretty much settled by Eastern Europeans? I mean they were most of the farmers back in the early 1900’s.
  - blagie 5y ago
    No, it's not Eastern European == evil. The most common connotation is creepy and socially awkward. Evil comes up too, but it's a runner-up. It's never /normal/, though. When was the last time you saw a normal person on TV, who just happened to be Eastern European? The SNL episode this weekend, talking about Ukraine, went with the Eastern European prostitute stereotype. It's worth thinking about what Yakov Smirnoff was loved for. The black actors in minstrel show were often beloved too. So was Aunt Jemima. CBS just called us "relatively civilized" and "relatively European." Everyone picked up on the anti-Muslim racism, but few noticed that Eastern Europeans took a middle rung. More human than the Middle East, but less human than Europe. https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/1497607326487826435 https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/1497607326487826435

newby 5y ago

> "Well-integrated" isn't quite right. Slavic minorities are treated horribly by most Western Europeans (and Americans too). Historically, you'd go West, make money, and come back. Or if your country was bad enough, you'd go West, accept mistreatment, and stay. That does not ring true at all. I am one of the slavic minority who lived in UK for 2,5 years and I do not remember a single instance of being treated poorly for being slavic. And I have not heard anything like that from any of my friends (and I believe I would know - people talk about these things). Sure, I went West, made some money and returned to my country. But not because I was treated poorly - many people have this plan from the beginning: you go to UK, improve your English, gain a lot of experience, make money and use those to jumpstart your career after you return.